What, really, justifies future consoles?

Btw, people are under the erroneous assumption that physical discs = game preservation. I lent my B5 DVD collection to a buddy of mine the other day and about 20% of the discs don't load anymore. Ironically, digital games are probably going to be more future proof in the long run.

Yea, I've started looking towards a home server to back up my BD's and game discs... I'm sure some of the older ones (from my childhood, so like the 90s) are far beyond saving at this point from sheer age. So yea, not a guarantee. Sadly.

Funny enough another reason I'm happy about consoles is that a backed up disc can usually be played easily on an emulator. In higher resolution. Installing old windows games is incredibly frustrating to me by comparison.
 
My own stance is obviously that consoles as a they used to be are undermined as they (and the games they play) pivot towards a more PC like existence.
I guess that calls into question what a console was. Consoles have been marketed as everything from home arcades, video computer systems, intelligent television, extreme challenges, and kids toys. And later, they only did everything. But I think they've always tried to be the thing that's hooked to your TV and provided your entertainment. I think the goal of a console didn't so much change, but the entertainment did. Home video was integrated, then streaming music and video and web browsing.

Your "whispers of Microsoft" comment also feels a bit detached from the history of consoles, though I don't think you mean any malice by it. Microsoft moved into the console space to keep consoles from eating their lunch, true. But it was Sony made big pushes to integrate standards to consoles, from industry standard home video playback with DVD and Bluray, USB ports and PATA HDD support for PS2, and built in Wifi, bluetooth and web standards with PS3's web browser. Xbox 360 didn't launch with a browser, and didn't get one until a system update in 2012. Playstation 1 and 3 launched with industry standard video out (RCA and HDMI respectively), Xbox didn't have an HDMI port on them until after PS3 launched. PS3 also had the most open USB controller support of any console I've ever seen. You could plug in any USB DirectInput controller into it and it would probably work. I have some old USB controllers from the late 90s that let me navigate the home screen, though they lacked enough buttons to play most games. PS2 and PS3 also had games that support keyboard and mouse for play. PS2 had some games that supported USB printers.
 
I guess that calls into question what a console was. Consoles have been marketed as everything from home arcades, video computer systems, intelligent television, extreme challenges, and kids toys. And later, they only did everything. But I think they've always tried to be the thing that's hooked to your TV and provided your entertainment. I think the goal of a console didn't so much change, but the entertainment did. Home video was integrated, then streaming music and video and web browsing.

Your "whispers of Microsoft" comment also feels a bit detached from the history of consoles, though I don't think you mean any malice by it. Microsoft moved into the console space to keep consoles from eating their lunch, true. But it was Sony made big pushes to integrate standards to consoles, from industry standard home video playback with DVD and Bluray, USB ports and PATA HDD support for PS2, and built in Wifi, bluetooth and web standards with PS3's web browser. Xbox 360 didn't launch with a browser, and didn't get one until a system update in 2012. Playstation 1 and 3 launched with industry standard video out (RCA and HDMI respectively), Xbox didn't have an HDMI port on them until after PS3 launched. PS3 also had the most open USB controller support of any console I've ever seen. You could plug in any USB DirectInput controller into it and it would probably work. I have some old USB controllers from the late 90s that let me navigate the home screen, though they lacked enough buttons to play most games. PS2 and PS3 also had games that support keyboard and mouse for play. PS2 had some games that supported USB printers.

You're right, I certainly didn't mean any malice. I was just referring to talk about Microsoft moving towards third parties creating consoles based on a standard rather than creating the box themselves. Which isn't necessarily a negative depending on implementation. As you noted, consoles have evolved. They're not immutable. And they shouldn't be. Preserving the good traits while incorporating new ones ought to be the goal. Of course, we might all differ on what we think those good traits are, and how valuable they are to retain going forward.
 
Funny enough another reason I'm happy about consoles is that a backed up disc can usually be played easily on an emulator. In higher resolution. Installing old windows games is incredibly frustrating to me by comparison.
Can't you run an old-PC emulator? My last experience of that was DOSBox that, IIRC, worked well. Surely by now there are virtual machines, although I guess the OS is a sticky situation.
 
Can't you run an old-PC emulator? My last experience of that was DOSBox that, IIRC, worked well. Surely by now there are virtual machines, although I guess the OS is a sticky situation.
Most of the PC games I've tried to run have been from the windows 95 to XP era. Installing the original Far Cry was an exercise in frustration from what I remember, and a few older adventure games I gave up and installed through a virtual machine running windows 98. So none of it was impossible, but for sheer ease of use modern emulators are nearly as plug and play as the consoles they're emulating. And I much prefer that hehe
 
If the SFF PC is just for gaming ie can be stuffed away as the console and used easily only with a controller* like the console while connected to the tv, sure i would probably buy one vs a console. But that is the experience I am looking for. I do not want another pc at home. I got a rack under the stairs with servers and also a couple of laptops for work. I got no space I want to dedicate for a chair+ desk + pc + screen + keyboard/mouse. I need space for my lego ;)


*Having keyboard/mouse floating around the couch is just annoying.
 
Yea, I've started looking towards a home server to back up my BD's and game discs
Do you really need to do this? Almost every piece of media worth preserving is out there somewhere on the piracy web.

If the SFF PC is just for gaming ie can be stuffed away as the console and used easily only with a controller* like the console while connected to the tv, sure i would probably buy one vs a console. But that is the experience I am looking for. I do not want another pc at home. I got a rack under the stairs with servers and also a couple of laptops for work. I got no space I want to dedicate for a chair+ desk + pc + screen + keyboard/mouse. I need space for my lego ;)


*Having keyboard/mouse floating around the couch is just annoying.
Idk, personally I find paying for online multiplayer every month and everything being 100% locked down far more annoying than keeping a wireless keyboard by the coffee table.

My thing with modern consoles is they aren't really that much simpler than PCs. This isn't the early 2000s where you needed to know what you are doing to run a PC, these days barring complicated builds (multiple RGB vendors, custom liquid loops, whatever) even DIY builds are easy. The only thing that remains really obnoxious is using surround sound on PC out to a receiver without using Atmos or DTS:X (so like old school Dolby Digital 5.1). Atmos works fine though, or so I'm told. I had to hack my old DD setup.

Plus one of the big advantages of old consoles was exclusives. You couldn't play Halo 2 on PC in 2004, and you couldn't play Halo 3 until like 2020 on PC. All very good reasons to own an Xbox. Now that every game is not only cross platform, but has a fairly competent PC port most of the time, there is no reason to own these consoles anymore.
 
Do you really need to do this? Almost every piece of media worth preserving is out there somewhere on the piracy web.

Need is a strong word. I want to. The sticking point is "worth preserving". A lot of stuff I've liked over the years is probably around in some obscure digital cubby-hole, but I haven't found it, because there isn't enough interest for there to be broad availability. If I back it up myself it might die in a disk crash or a house fire, but at least I tried. And then it'll be closer to hand.

I do wish discs lasted better, because as a long term storage medium they are decently handy. Don't take up too much space. I've made tons of DVD's that are probably just rotting at this point though...
 
Idk, personally I find paying for online multiplayer every month and everything being 100% locked down far more annoying than keeping a wireless keyboard by the coffee table.
Thats you, I do not care to thinker with computers outside of work. The monthly fee is worth it for me not to spend time trying to figure out a or b. When I can just relax and play a game instead. I used to have a PC in the living room for gaming, it was more hassle than it was worth and having mouse/keyboard in the couch or on a table or beside the couch or under the table etc. bigger hassle than that monthly fee.

My thing with modern consoles is they aren't really that much simpler than PCs. This isn't the early 2000s where you needed to know what you are doing to run a PC, these days

You keep ignoring everybody that tells you that is not their experience. :) And I do know a thing or to about computers, but seeing you guys talk about latest drivers for this game or that game or that bug..... Not worth it, if Sony/MS has a bug, then I can not do anything but wait for them to fix it. In the meantime I do something else, that is simpler. And if the HW is defective I just pop to the store to get the whole thing repaired, instead of playing accountant and finding the receipt for the cpu or ram or gpu or ssd or or :p

Plus one of the big advantages of old consoles was exclusives. You couldn't play Halo 2 on PC in 2004, and you couldn't play Halo 3 until like 2020 on PC. All very good reasons to own an Xbox. Now that every game is not only cross platform, but has a fairly competent PC port most of the time, there is no reason to own these consoles anymore.

Again, you disregard what people tell you. My reasons for having a console is it saves me time (I am old dying soon (25+ years left hopefully), so I do not have much of it) , it is that simple. The titles are becoming more and more irrelevant. I used to stick to Playstation because they made the kind of games I liked to play. Big SP adventures, now both companies are doing the same thing in my view, so need to switch either way.

Heck when I reitre in about 15 years time, I get more free time, I might buy me a gaming PC again. Maybe even a stereo system with some gold cables....
 
Thats you, I do not care to thinker with computers outside of work. The monthly fee is worth it for me not to spend time trying to figure out a or b. When I can just relax and play a game instead. I used to have a PC in the living room for gaming, it was more hassle than it was worth and having mouse/keyboard in the couch or on a table or beside the couch or under the table etc. bigger hassle than that monthly fee.



You keep ignoring everybody that tells you that is not their experience. :) And I do know a thing or to about computers, but seeing you guys talk about latest drivers for this game or that game or that bug..... Not worth it, if Sony/MS has a bug, then I can not do anything but wait for them to fix it. In the meantime I do something else, that is simpler. And if the HW is defective I just pop to the store to get the whole thing repaired, instead of playing accountant and finding the receipt for the cpu or ram or gpu or ssd or or :p



Again, you disregard what people tell you. My reasons for having a console is it saves me time (I am old dying soon (25+ years left hopefully), so I do not have much of it) , it is that simple. The titles are becoming more and more irrelevant. I used to stick to Playstation because they made the kind of games I liked to play. Big SP adventures, now both companies are doing the same thing in my view, so need to switch either way.

Heck when I reitre in about 15 years time, I get more free time, I might buy me a gaming PC again. Maybe even a stereo system with some gold cables....
This is my first time in this thread so I have no idea what you meant when you said I “keep ignoring people”.

That aside, I do hear this a lot from console heads, that it’s about saving time and not fiddling. What exactly are you fiddling with on your PC?
 
This is my first time in this thread so I have no idea what you meant when you said I “keep ignoring people”.
Sorry, then I mixed you up with somebody else or maybe it was a topic in another thread I mixed in. Then again you did not "listen" to me when I started on the SFF :p

That aside, I do hear this a lot from console heads, that it’s about saving time and not fiddling. What exactly are you fiddling with on your PC?

After setting up a console, which is in this day and time, its not just boot up anymore, as you said. You only have to FW upgrade it once in a blue moon and charge your controllers. Maybe add a SSD if you feel crazy :D

PC, how often do you have to patch and when that patch breaks something obscure somewhere else or a new driver does som funky, that is where the fiddling comes in. And its just that one more ting or that ting you want to do/try etc.
 
PC, how often do you have to patch and when that patch breaks something obscure somewhere else or a new driver does som funky, that is where the fiddling comes in. And its just that one more ting or that ting you want to do/try etc.
Almost never? Sometimes with older titles sure but with modern stuff essentially never.

There's whole threads devoted to getting particular games running on PC properly in the Games forum. Does anything more need to be said?
There’s also entire threads on the internet dedicated to debating Xbox settings. That doesn’t mean it’s difficult, that means people online like to tinker with shit. Most people just set their settings to high (or whatever the Nvidia default is) and call it a day, maybe bump some settings down if they want more frames.
 
As to the ease of use compared to PC I tend to agree with @Johnny Awesome. I've never had a PC that hasn't developed issues one way or another. Windows or driver updates breaking something or changing behaviors, networking issues, hardware hiccups, etc.

We're all different when it comes to ability or will to problem solve computers, and personally I accept a lot of trade offs for ease of use. So to me that's a beneficial feature of consoles.

Granted, they're not perfect. Still haven't finished Mirror's Edge due to a bug. And since I played on console, it's not like I could hack a solution...
 
This discussion is old as the hills. PC enthusiasts have trouble accepting that non-PC gamers find fault with Windows gaming, but we aren't making stuff up. ;)

Anecdotally, first hand experience of Win10 and 11, I've had Wifi fail strangely (get slower over time from boot) and need a driver uninstall to remedy; USB just fail on boot sometimes so no wifi adaptor found; Windows tell the user they haven't got a valid copy of Windows; Windows show there's no app for this feature (gamebar?) and not have a way to close this notification or find an app; controller connectivity issues. Reading wider, you get random PC faults. "This game doesn't run on this PC - anyone know why?" And quite often no-one does. Or they do and you just wait on a fix. Add to that modern 'customer support' which can quite readily just ignore users, and sometimes considerable time taken asking around trying to solve issues that may or may not be solvable, Windows definitely comes with increased risk versus console. This isn't saying Windows is always breaking and unusable and is not quantifying the problems. PC gaming comes with notable benefits too. As such, different folk prefer different machines, but there are definitely two discrete experiences where neither is a drop-in replacement for the other.
 
I'd really like a reason to be excited.
if you are into Nintendo, the Switch 2 looks promising. Other than that, it's just the same old though.

Times have changed, a lot. Consoles were at the forefront of development and standarizing hardware -DVD, Bluray, HDTV, etc-. But not anymore.

Itagaki, Cliff Blesszinski, Kojima, Polyphony Digital etc etc, tuned their games for consoles in incredible ways, but again, times have changed.

It doesn't happen just on consoles. Intel was the most dominant force regarding computers, but now they aren't. nVidia was once a small company, and now they are just way ahead of other PC companies and consoles.

Consoles will still do fine. I had consoles for about 10 years -from 2005 to 2015- and still have one in the basement taking dust, and played great games, but I moved on and I don't miss them. Just having something that it's only good for gaming is limiting.
 
Consoles will still do fine. I had consoles for about 10 years -from 2005 to 2015- and still have one in the basement taking dust, and played great games, but I moved on and I don't miss them. Just having something that it's only good for gaming is limiting.
The market is certainly undergoing change and it's a worthwhile discussion to discuss. We have children who have grown up with smartphones and tablets, streaming services etc. And having this gaming console is extremely limiting for an audience of folks who are used to playing on the go. At the same time, when a player gets more serious about gaming, they'll want to settle down into something heavier, and that's when consoles start to find their place. And after consoles, PC would be the next place to go as they continue to become more dedicated towards the hobby.

The issue is that both smart phones, tablets, and PCs are multi-purpose devices, whereas consoles are still largely designed to play games and play games only, while being locked into a similar physical space that a PC also resides.
 
Is this still true? They only do everything now, right?
sure theres some more functionality there than previous generations. But it's not largely being used for that functionality. A very limited number of people jumps on their console to surf social media, work on a document, surf the web, etc. Maybe netflix, but that's mainly covered by the smart TVs now.
 
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