Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[chris1515]

The only part I find logic in the new information is the 56 CUs part...

 

[McHuj]

Sounds good to me.

This definitely seems like a trail run for PS6. Let Sony/AMD get some real world usage and feedback for their NPU and raytracing upgrades.

Hopefully devs have enough time with this hardware before real architectural decisions have to be made about next gen.

 

[RDGoodla]

If Pro really has 2x-2.5x raytracing performance of PS5, can PS5 Pro reach RTX 4070 in RT workloads?

 

[Johnny Awesome]

They day Digital Foundry crew, '30fps motion blur lovers', favored playing Horizon Forbiden West using the patched 60fps performance mode was the day 'bell and whistles 30fps gaming' died.

Hardly. GTA VI proves that. By the time it comes out there will be a 100 million units out there that can only play it at 30 fps vs. at most 10 million PS5 Pros that can run it at 60 fps. That disparity will exist for years.

I'll go even farther and say that it would be a big mistake for R* to dial back the physics, NPC density etc... to make 60 fps possible on current gen hardware, which is precisely Seanspeed's point I think.

Not every game has to be designed with 60 fps in mind. Sticking to 30 fps can open design space sometimes.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

If Pro really has 2x-2.5x raytracing performance of PS5, can PS5 Pro reach RTX 4070 in RT workloads?

Could be more like a 4070ti looking at RDNA4, though that depends on clocks which can be limited in consoles due to yield concerns. So just think "4070 or above".

I wonder how much they'll charge? "Digital" PS5 Pro (disc attachment not included) is going to be $499 - $599, but which one they choose will be interesting.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Could be more like a 4070ti looking at RDNA4, though that depends on clocks which can be limited in consoles due to yield concerns. So just think "4070 or above".

I wonder how much they'll charge? "Digital" PS5 Pro (disc attachment not included) is going to be $499 - $599, but which one they choose will be interesting.

4070Ti is roughly 2x the PS5 in pure raster so in heavy RT situations its comfortably 3x the PS5 or even more in some cases.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

ResetEra rumours seem to describe a rather limited upgrade. As a Pro, seems entirely reliant on upscaling and RT. Perhaps that's adequate, getting 2x higher quality with a 1.5x bump in specs or something, but actual paper specs for marketing don't paint a compelling reason to own. It'd have to be sold on A/B comparisons to show how much better it is in motion than PS5.

 

[techuse]

Wow so PS5 Pro is rumored (post I just read on Ree Era) to be 56 CU's at just 2 ghz? 14.33 Tflop. And 16 GB RAM?

These seem to be the same type of leaks that correctly predicted PS5/XSX specs before release, as well

[Tom Henderson] PS5 Pro specs and release window details (codenamed Trinity, 30WGPs, 18000mts memory speed, November 2024 target) Rumor - Sony

Well if kepler keeps repeating this, we are screwed. Crappy bandwidth upgrade plus keeping the same amoun of VRAM (don't bring me they gonna free up some by adding DDR5, doesn't matter if bandwidth is still not huge jump to allow the stuff they will be marketing), not even double CU count and...

www.resetera.com

Yeah at that point if I'm Xbox I dont even worry about it. And if I'm Sony I gotta price no higher than 499.

The "XDNA 2 NPU" could be some kind of wild card, I guess, though.

Apologize I have no idea how much of this has been discussed in pages past.

This wouldn't surprise me at all. AMD isn't able to produce a GPU twice as fast as a PS5 with a low enough power draw for a reasonable amount of money.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'll go even farther and say that it would be a big mistake for R* to dial back the physics, NPC density etc... to make 60 fps possible on current gen hardware, which is precisely Seanspeed's point I think.

These are two things - NPC density and physics - were largely solved last gen because individual and crowd ped behaviour are things that you can toss into compute, like physics. 30/60fps makes no odds because simulated people don't react to things in 16m/s.

GTA VI has upped both NPC and vehicle density compared to GTA V, although if you rewatch the footage, in many scenes the NPCs are stationary in idle animations, and many of the vehicles are parked, meaning most of this is fixed or slightly animated geometry.

I think the reason Rockstar didn't up NPC and vehicle density on the current gen console versions of GTA V, over last gen versions, is because these are what the game was designed and balanced for. You can chose to increase density on PC, but the default is the equivalent traffic density to consoles because more vehicles impacts game balance. But if the team are starting out with higher density traffic in VI, they can ensure missions remain balanced around this. This may mean thinking more about how they construct the city environment

I wouldn't rule out a 30/60fps mode on PS5 and Series X. They're going to have to make this game scale down to Series S after all.

 

[RDGoodla]

It seems like SONY and AMD are building 4070 of their own, in terms of rasterization, ray tracing and upscaling technique.

 

[davis.anthony]

I think it's important to remember that one of the big reasons PS5 is 36CU's is because PS4 Pro is 36CU's (Which was double base PS4) as it helps with backwards compatibility.

So Sony will either have to stay at 36CU's or move to 72CU's or risk having to do more work on the emulation side of PS4 games.

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1734129960434950655

Better source than this shitty leak…

 

[Globalisateur]

I think it's important to remember that one of the big reasons PS5 is 36CU's is because PS4 Pro is 36CU's (Which was double base PS4) as it helps with backwards compatibility.

So Sony will either have to stay at 36CU's or move to 72CU's or risk having to do more work on the emulation side of PS4 games.

Sony are doing 60 out of 64.
Beaten by @chris1515 !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I guess Sony improved their BC.

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1734161850672054670

About the pseudo leak…

 

[davis.anthony]

Sony are doing 60 out of 64.
Beaten by @chris1515 !

Rumoured*

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I guess Sony improved their BC.

Mark Cerny said PS4 Pro was designed in a butterfly arrangement in part to achieve good backwards compatibility with PS4, but there no similar messaging as part of the Road to PS5, instead Mark Cerny said:

Backwards compatibility was handled masterfully by AMD they treated it as a key need throughout the design process. As our solution to adding new features without blindsiding developers, we made sure that if there were new significant features it would be optional to use them

This probably suggests that the 36 CU arrangement was no longer necessary (PS5's APUs doesn't have that butterfly arrangement) and that 36 CU was chosen for PS5 for die-size/yield/power reasons, rather than b/c.

 

[Globalisateur]

Mark Cerny said PS4 Pro was designed in a butterfly arrangement in part to achieve good backwards compatibility with PS4, but there no similar messaging as part of the Road to PS5, instead Mark Cerny said:


This probably suggests that the 36 CU arrangement was no longer necessary (PS5's APUs doesn't have that butterfly arrangement) and that 36 CU was chosen for PS5 for die-size/yield/power reasons, rather than b/c.

Exactly. Cerny himself said they thought about using 48CUs instead of 36CUs for PS5 but prefered the higher clocked 36CUs version.

 

[Seanspeed]

These are two things - NPC density and physics - were largely solved last gen because individual and crowd ped behaviour are things that you can toss into compute, like physics. 30/60fps makes no odds because simulated people don't react to things in 16m/s.

GTA VI has upped both NPC and vehicle density compared to GTA V, although if you rewatch the footage, in many scenes the NPCs are stationary in idle animations, and many of the vehicles are parked, meaning most of this is fixed or slightly animated geometry.

I think the reason Rockstar didn't up NPC and vehicle density on the current gen console versions of GTA V, over last gen versions, is because these are what the game was designed and balanced for. You can chose to increase density on PC, but the default is the equivalent traffic density to consoles because more vehicles impacts game balance. But if the team are starting out with higher density traffic in VI, they can ensure missions remain balanced around this. This may mean thinking more about how they construct the city environment

I wouldn't rule out a 30/60fps mode on PS5 and Series X. They're going to have to make this game scale down to Series S after all.

Just cuz you can do things with GPU compute doesn't mean you can just throw stuff in there and it's free. GTA VI is clearly doing a LOT of things here graphically already, and the physics they go for are some of the advanced you find in video games.

I mean, the way you're talking, it's like you're suggesting that CPU's dont actually do anything in games anymore, therefore there's no reason for any game to not be 60fps. Which simply isn't realistic. It feels like stubborn arguing at this point rather than having to concede that making everything 60fps absolutely does require sacrificing the ambition/scope of the game if a dev wanted to really push what these CPU's can do.

As for scaling to Series S, the CPU in that is fine. If the bottleneck to 60fps is the CPU, the Series S is irrelevant in terms of scaling opportunity. It's no different than PS5/XSX on this front.

Rumoured*

Yea, I dont know why people are treating Kepler L2's posts as gospel. :/

 

[chris1515]

Just cuz you can do things with GPU compute doesn't mean you can just throw stuff in there and it's free. GTA VI is clearly doing a LOT of things here graphically already, and the physics they go for are some of the advanced you find in video games.

I mean, the way you're talking, it's like you're suggesting that CPU's dont actually do anything in games anymore, therefore there's no reason for any game to not be 60fps. Which simply isn't realistic. It feels like stubborn arguing at this point rather than having to concede that making everything 60fps absolutely does require sacrificing the ambition/scope of the game if a dev wanted to really push what these CPU's can do.

As for scaling to Series S, the CPU in that is fine. If the bottleneck to 60fps is the CPU, the Series S is irrelevant in terms of scaling opportunity. It's no different than PS5/XSX on this front.


Yea, I dont know why people are treating Kepler L2's posts as gospel. :/

They can reduce the open world density if they want 60 fps. Divide the number of NPC by two or three for example.

They are rumors too but much more credible than a random guy posting something inside the PS5 Pro era thread. And I verified the post history of the guy, he only post in and Steam Deck OLED thread, Switch 2 TS2039 Digitalfoundry thread and Xbox OT thread being pro ABK merger...