Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[mpg1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108396905271312384

 

[Scott_Arm]

But if both are using the same raytracing implementation then the instructions should be the same, meaning both should be able to be benched. Im also still looking for answers for my first and third oddities. (2x L0 bandwidth / CU for Oberon vs Arden/Sparkman) and (double wave size for Oberon sometimes vs Arden/Sparkman (64 vs 32)).

RDNA supports wave sizes of 32 or 64. GCN supported only 64.

The cache bandwidth test I can’t explain because I don’t know where to read the results. It looks like 128b cache line reads from L0 to L1.

 

[ultragpu]

Possible new plot twist. Arden is PS5, Sparkman is XsX and Oberon is PS5 BC mode. After all Arden is related to Shakespeare while Sparkman is totally unrelated. And it's probably not a coincidence that they found Arden file names inside Oberon. Since Sparkman is allegedly also 56CU same as Arden's 56 CU, it could explain how both PS5 and XsX are similar in compute power with just some clock difference that would result in one being slightly faster. Lockhart would absolutely have no chance in hell to sport a 56 CU chip for a 4 TF spec if cost saving is remotely on the agenda. This article from T3 posted on August 20 is so overlooked as it describes the code names in detail.
https://www.t3.com/news/the-bonkers-ps5-discovery-that-unmasks-sony-playstations-burning-ambition

Ariel, Oberon, and Gonzalo are all characters from Shakespeare plays, while Arden is a collection of scholarly editions of the playwright's works. And each one of these code names has been connected to the PS5 over the past 18 months, as was then noted on Reddit. The rabbit hole goes deeper, though…


As you'll already know, both Ariel and Gonzalo are characters in one Shakespeare play, The Tempest, with the former being a spirit of great magic, and the latter a noble man of honesty and integrity.

Oberon meanwhile, the name that is currently most associated with the PS5 in terms of underground leaks and whispers, comes from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and is the all-powerful king of the fairies that is unmatched by any.

But this is to assume Sony is employing this particular narrative in the form of Shakespeare plays which would single out Sparkman and that leaves the next most probably candidate to be a new Xbox. If these code names are just randomly selected by AMD to represent their products then there shall still be two 56 CU chips and that is good news however you look at it.

 

[ultragpu]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108396905271312384

Wrong on 12GB of GDDR6 and Ryzen +. It's 16GB of GDDR6 with 256bit bus and Ryzen Zen 2.

 

[Shortbread]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108396905271312384

Here's another narrative in the same month. You know, random tweet vs random rumor.

https://hothardware.com/news/sony-ps5-devkits-navi-gpu-rumored-12-teraflops

Now, a new rumor is making the rounds, and it comes from industry insider Benji-Sales. According to his [since deleted] tweet leak, the PlayStation 5 devkit -- which has already been leaked in these alleged images -- has a Navi GPU that is rated at nearly 13 teraflops of compute performance. He also says that there is "tons of ultra fast RAM" at the system's disposal.

Did anyone notice the similarities between this supposed earlier PS5 SDK and the current PS5 SDK? They both have those chunkier DS5 controllers, USB layout and similar LED/LCD screen placements. And the amount of ventilation on top off the earlier KIT maybe the supposed reason for the more stackable current SDK.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Possible new plot twist. Arden is PS5, Sparkman is XsX and Oberon is PS5 BC mode. After all Arden is related to Shakespeare while Sparkman is totally unrelated. And it's probably not a coincidence that they found Arden file names inside Oberon. Since Sparkman is allegedly also 56CU same as Arden's 56 CU, it could explain how both PS5 and XsX are similar in compute power with just some clock difference that would result in one being slightly faster. Lockhart would absolutely have no chance in hell to sport a 56 CU chip for a 4 TF spec if cost saving is remotely on the agenda. This article from T3 posted on August 20 is so overlooked as it describes the code names in detail.
https://www.t3.com/news/the-bonkers-ps5-discovery-that-unmasks-sony-playstations-burning-ambition

But this is to assume Sony is employing this particular narrative in the form of Shakespeare plays which would single out Sparkman and that leaves the next most probably candidate to be a new Xbox. If these code names are just randomly selected by AMD to represent their products then there shall still be two 56 CU chips and that is good news however you look at it.

AMD codenames are given by AMD.

Arden is different chip all together from Ariel/Oberon (with Oberon being later one, but effectively same chip).

Arden has Xbox BC (GEN0 and GEN1). I don't see how it can be PS5. Sparkman only has GEN0. Komachi already mentioned Sparkman being "less" of the other two, and along Brad Sams leak in January about Arden being XSX, I'll go with that.

 

[mpg1]

Possible new plot twist. Arden is PS5, Sparkman is XsX and Oberon is PS5 BC mode. After all Arden is related to Shakespeare while Sparkman is totally unrelated. And it's probably not a coincidence that they found Arden file names inside Oberon. Since Sparkman is allegedly also 56CU same as Arden's 56 CU, it could explain how both PS5 and XsX are similar in compute power with just some clock difference that would result in one being slightly faster. Lockhart would absolutely have no chance in hell to sport a 56 CU chip for a 4 TF spec if cost saving is remotely on the agenda. This article from T3 posted on August 20 is so overlooked as it describes the code names in detail.
https://www.t3.com/news/the-bonkers-ps5-discovery-that-unmasks-sony-playstations-burning-ambition

But this is to assume Sony is employing this particular narrative in the form of Shakespeare plays which would single out Sparkman and that leaves the next most probably candidate to be a new Xbox. If these code names are just randomly selected by AMD to represent their products then there shall still be two 56 CU chips and that is good news however you look at it.

Brad Sams corroborated resetera user hmqgg that Arden is a codename for Xbox a year ago:

 

[ultragpu]

AMD codenames are given by AMD.

Arden is different chip all together from Ariel/Oberon (with Oberon being later one, but effectively same chip).

Arden has Xbox BC (GEN0 and GEN1). I don't see how it can be PS5. Sparkman only has GEN0. Komachi already mentioned Sparkman being "less" of the other two, and along Brad Sams leak in January about Arden being XSX, I'll go with that.

So Gen0 is XB1 and Gen1 is 1X then? Sparkman only has Gen0 means it's not BC compatible with 1X for some reason? Gen0 is not XB360 is it?

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

So Gen0 is XB1 and Gen1 is 1X then? Sparkman only has Gen0 means it's not BC compatible with 1X for some reason? Gen0 is not XB360 is it?

Yes. In Oberon Gen0 is PS4, Gen1 is Pro.

For Xbox Gen0 is (4RB+, only Xbox One has 16ROPs) as mentioned by Komachi. Gen1 is X, and Sparkman does not contain it. I am not sure if Sparkman native was placeholder (copy from Arden) or what, but seems to be (file is deleted now).

 

[BRiT]

Why doesn't XB360 have full OXB BC then? Why doesn't XBO have full BC with OXB and 360? Why isn't the hardware of these platforms as abstracted as it is in Windows?

Silly things like redistribution of the program and specially music assets were not included in original license terms. Microsoft has learned from that and the licenses to all Xbox One games include such terms going forward from a certain time. This allows MS to repackage and rebuild future downloads as required. With that said, there have been some games on Xbox One that have been delisted from the market place, but nearly all of those are from the publisher no longer having rights to use the IPs included (original terms only included rights to make and sell a game for X years and those years are now up).

Local tribal knowledge states that in Xbox 360, Microsoft was bitten from their Nvidia technology license on Original Xbox so they didn't opt to license everything required to do better BC in X360. That seems to have changed by the time Xbox One rolled around. MS has inclusion of HW assisting BC items such as expanded support for texture and audio formats.

 

[ultragpu]

Yes. In Oberon Gen0 is PS4, Gen1 is Pro.

For Xbox Gen0 is (4RB+, only Xbox One has 16ROPs) as mentioned by Komachi. Gen1 is X, and Sparkman does not contain it. I am not sure if Sparkman native was placeholder (copy from Arden) or what, but seems to be (file is deleted now).

But they already found Sparkman to have 56 CUs and 560GB/s bandwidth, so what the hell is it ?
Possibly an older version of Anaconda devkit since it lacks Gen1 BC?

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

But they already found Sparkman to have 56 CUs and 560GB/s bandwidth, so what the hell is it ?

Most tabs are "placeholder". As I said, I think Sparkman is copy from Arden, but in additional tab Sparkman didn't have GEN1, and this matches Komachi saying "Sparkman" is "less then Oberon/Arden".

Problem is people looking at 9.2 v 12 and saying OMG XSX is 30% faster. Its not. Period. Not as per leaked specs.

1. More CUs (56 vs 36) at lower clocks (1.7 vs 2.0) with same amount of ROPSs will result in worse pixel fillrate (25% advantage for PS5)
2. More CUs at 560 (or even 640GB/s) bandwidth will result in smaller BW per TF then 36 CUs at 512/576GB/s

From Sony's perspective, and knowing their BC method, they were pretty much "pushed" towards 36CUs at very high clocks. This will result in straightforward BC, smaller chip and less TF (but more pixel fillrate).

If they went with 56CUs, they would have to lower clocks (maybe even resulting in ~11TF), resulting in 35% lower pixel fillrate (!!), bigger chip and lower yields for ~2TF more. Pushing for 12-13TF would result in VERY expensive premium console going against competitor pushing one at 299$.

IMO, in worst possible case (12TF vs 9.2TF, 640GB/s vs 576GB/s) difference will not be bigger then 20%. And that is CLOSE.

 

[mpg1]

Sparkman = Lockhart.

 

[RDGoodla]

Possibly an older version of Anaconda devkit since it lacks Gen1 BC?

Sparkman appeared in Taiwan near October.

It is a newer case than Arden/OBR.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Possible new plot twist. Arden is PS5, Sparkman is XsX and Oberon is PS5 BC mode.

Are you just posting the nuttier theories from resetera?

Arden is different chip all together from Ariel/Oberon (with Oberon being later one, but effectively same chip).

Right, like PS5 isn't going to play Xbox One games.

From Sony's perspective, and knowing their BC method, they were pretty much "pushed" towards 36CUs at very high clocks. This will result in straightforward BC, smaller chip and less TF (but more pixel fillrate).

Yup. Sony's choices for PS4 have made certainly complicated their backwards/forwards strategy that I doubt they thought overly about in 2010-2013.

 

[ultragpu]

Yeah, been reading a lot on Era. They got some wild but interesting theories that's for sure. Baseless speculation and all . Anyway bowing out for the night, hope to see more development when I wake up.

 

[iroboto]

But they already found Sparkman to have 56 CUs and 560GB/s bandwidth, so what the hell is it ?

why assume it's supposed to be a console.

 

[RDGoodla]

why assume it's supposed to be a console.

Taiwan leaker said it uses BLx.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Silly things like redistribution of the program and specially music assets were not included in original license terms.

That wouldn't stop disc-compatible BC though. Put in the disc - you own the rights to all media on it. XBO supports disc-based DC but only for a handful of select titles.

 

[iroboto]

Taiwan leaker said it uses BLx.

What's BLx? other than a designation for semi-custom SoC.

So why do you assume it's a console