Predict: Next gen console tech (9th iteration and 10th iteration edition) [2014 - 2017]

[Globalisateur]

While HBM is expensive, GDDR6 looks really promising (and maybe cheaper) for a 2020 console release IMO.

http://wccftech.com/micron-gddr6-gddr5x-memory-mass-production-early-2018/
https://www.micron.com/about/blogs/2017/june/what-drives-our-commitment-to-16gbps-graphics-memory

 

[MrFox]

While HBM is expensive, GDDR6 looks really promising (and maybe cheaper) for a 2020 console release IMO.

http://wccftech.com/micron-gddr6-gddr5x-memory-mass-production-early-2018/
https://www.micron.com/about/blogs/2017/june/what-drives-our-commitment-to-16gbps-graphics-memory

Yeah gddr6 is now very likely.

HBM was announced as the future tech everywhere. DDR4 and GDDR5 supposed to be the last iterations.

Not only do we get gddr6 but jedec announced ddr5:

https://www.jedec.org/news/pressreleases/jedec-ddr5-nvdimm-p-standards-under-development

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

If we assume another mid generation upgrade, is GDDR6 still the best option? Could a console refresh equipped with GDDR6 improve its bandwidth over a wide enough bus, or could the refresh transition to HBM?

 

[AlNom]

If we assume another mid generation upgrade, is GDDR6 still the best option?

Most likely

Could a console refresh equipped with GDDR6 improve its bandwidth over a wide enough bus,

You'd be looking at >11GT/s vs 6.8GT/s speeds.

 

[Kaotik]

HBM was announced as the future tech everywhere. DDR4 and GDDR5 supposed to be the last iterations.

Not only do we get gddr6 but jedec announced ddr5:

https://www.jedec.org/news/pressreleases/jedec-ddr5-nvdimm-p-standards-under-development

I don't remember hearing DDR4 being "last of it's kind" ever. DDR5 is old news and Rambus already has working chips in the labs

 

[MrFox]

I don't remember hearing DDR4 being "last of it's kind" ever. DDR5 is old news and Rambus already has working chips in the labs

2014 had multiple articles saying post ddr4 would be hbm for consumers and hmc for servers.

 

[phoenix_chipset]

Yeah it seems hbm isn't going to beat out ddr memory in the gpu market. Gddr6 is looking pretty good.

We might see consoles with hbm though since they're most likely to stick with AMD.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Most likely
You'd be looking at >11GT/s vs 6.8GT/s speeds.

What are those speeds comparing? GDDR6 on a 384 bit bus vs a 256 bit bus?

Sticking to Sony, because they're likely to be the first ones to release a next generation console, I ask because I see a few possibilities. They may:
- use a small amount of HBM and a large amount of slower memory, knowing that manufacturing costs will lower enough over 3 years to release a refresh with significantly more HBM.
- use GDDR6 in order to maintain a unified pool of memory, and use a wider bus and/or higher clockspeed for the refresh.
- use GDDR6 at launch, maintain a unified memory pool, but transition this to HBM with the refresh.

The first option's the most appealing, the second is the most likely, and the third is probably just not possible. Is it the case, if we disregard cost for a moment, that changing memory type could prove problematic for compatibility?

 

[DieH@rd]

16 x 16Gb GDDR6 [for a total of 32GB of ram, with the doors being open down the line to go to 8x32Gb chips] is IMO most likely what we will get. And I think the only bump to that will be if they immediately go with 32Gb chips [if they feel they need 64GB].

 

[eastmen]

As I pointed earlier, gddr6 solves this. Both ps4 slim and pro can probably be on 7nm if they use gddr6 14gbps.

Not as simple for the original xb1. Ddr4 4266 won't happen any time soon, let alone at reasonable prices. So I expect MS to focus on xb1x which also have the gddr6 option. Or go gddr6 for xb1. Edram plus ddr have to disappear asap.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11840/corsair-announces-ddr4-4600-vengeance-lpx-kits



DDR4 4266 is about $160 bucks for 8 gigs (2 dimms) so your right about it being expensive still

 

[eastmen]

16 x 16Gb GDDR6 [for a total of 32GB of ram, with the doors being open down the line to go to 8x32Gb chips] is IMO most likely what we will get. And I think the only bump to that will be if they immediately go with 32Gb chips [if they feel they need 64GB].

I would think a split pool would be more cost effective for next gen consoles. 8 gigs of DDR 4 or DDR5 and 16 gigs of GDDR6 or since they will most likely go with AMD HBM 2/3 .

 

[Allandor]

If we learned something from XB1, a split pool is not cheap and more complicated for developers. I would really prefer a split pool, so you can take what's best for the GPU and what's best for the CPU. But it seems, that won't happen.
HBM is something that is really interesting but it costs to much. Also, if a hbm stack is defect, you can throw away the whole APU. Here external RAM makes more sense, as you can't reuse it at lower clocks for something else (like AMD can do with their graphics cards).
GDDR6 should be the cheapest memory you can get in 2020+. Also they will likely increase the caches of the CPU and GPU, so the effect of memory-contention can be lowered a bit.

I really hope GDDR6 is more responsive than GDDR5x. As we can see with the Geforce 1080TI GDDR5x cards, it seems that the memory is not that good for compute. That would really hurt the CPU if GDDR6 is even worse.

 

[chris1515]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1438011

Avalanche and Square Enix begins to talk about next generation

TECHNICAL DIRECTOR- MULTIPLAYER

Avalanche Studios is currently looking for a senior programmer to lead the development of our next generation open world / sandbox multiplayer engine.

As the Technical Director for multiplayer you will take ownership of the architecture and implementation of multiplayer in the Avalanche Apex engine. This is a great opportunity to work with some of the most complex and rewarding challenges in game development today; Open worlds, sandbox gameplay and highly destructible multiplayer environments.

As with most multiplayer development, a keen sense of fun gameplay and that 6th sense for what gives the perfect "feeling" are both key aspects for this role.

This is a rare opportunity for the candidate who wants to play an instrumental and leading role in a small team developing next-generation multiplayer experience.

If you are a person who likes being challenged and stimulated in an ambitious and talented environment this position will suit you perfectly. Avalanche Studios is developing for both current and next gen platforms.

And the next game of the FF 15 team will be released on next gen (cross gen?)

 

[MrFox]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11840/corsair-announces-ddr4-4600-vengeance-lpx-kits



DDR4 4266 is about $160 bucks for 8 gigs (2 dimms) so your right about it being expensive still

That's overclocked/overvolted there are no bins at that speed.

 

[London Geezer]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1438011

Avalanche and Square Enix begins to talk about next generation



And the next game of the FF 15 team will be released on next gen (cross gen?)

Good lord. No more proprietary engines, Square!

 

[AlNom]

What are those speeds comparing? GDDR6 on a 384 bit bus vs a 256 bit bus?

Data transfer rate per chip, independent of final bus width.

A 256-bit bus, ala 4Pro @ 6.8GT/s, gives you ~218GB/s. If you replaced that with GDDR6 @ >11GT/s, you'd have at least 352GB/s on the same bus size.

A 384-bit bus, ala Scorpio @6.8GT/s, gives you ~326GB/s. If you replaced that with GDDR6 @ >11GT/s, you'd have at least 528GB/s on the same bus size.

bus width (bits) / 8 bits per byte * GT/s

 

[eastmen]

That's overclocked/overvolted there are no bins at that speed.

and ? as long as they can produce it in the numbers MS wants and at the power envolope they want there shouldn't be a problem

 

[AlNom]

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/graphic-dram/gddr6-component/K4ZAF325BM?ia=3159
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/graphic-dram/gddr6-component/K4Z80325BC?ia=3159

Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but it's interesting that they only list Graphic Card for the 8Gbit variant of GDDR6. Console is listed for both 16Gbit & 8Gbit densities (under development). Of course, it could just be speculative. ಠ_ಠ

I'm not entirely clear on what W/S or NB mean - Work Station & NoteBook?

 

[MrFox]

http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/graphic-dram/gddr6-component/K4ZAF325BM?ia=3159
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/products/dram/graphic-dram/gddr6-component/K4Z80325BC?ia=3159

Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but it's interesting that they only list Graphic Card for the 8Gbit variant of GDDR6. Console is listed for both 16Gbit & 8Gbit densities (under development). Of course, it could just be speculative. ಠ_ಠ

I'm not entirely clear on what W/S or NB mean - Work Station & NoteBook?

Console, With Sony?

 

[MrFox]

and ? as long as they can produce it in the numbers MS wants and at the power envolope they want there shouldn't be a problem

Didn't we have the same discussion about xb1 at 2133? All the same arguments still apply here.