Blazkowicz
Legend
but it kept the same performance level, as in the 2900->3870 or the 4850->5750 transitions 
AMD: R9xx Speculation
- Thread starter Lukfi
- Start date
but it kept the same performance level, as in the 2900->3870 or the 4850->5750 transitions
The problem I have with BartsXT:
Is many people who has very little knowledge about video cards like my Uncle who currently has HD5870 and if he upgrades to BartsXT 6870 his assumption would be that this is a major upgrade from 5870.
Honestly if price/performance will be good, its fine with me. If class-renaming still happens to incorporate Fusion chips, even if its confusing at first, AMD probably wont have to do it again for quite some time, so its fine with me as well.
Only a week or two to go till we find out, AMD is good at keeping secrets these days
Only a week or two to go till we find out, AMD is good at keeping secrets these days
The 5770 was 20% faster than the 4850 and they still called it a 5770.
How much faster a BartsXT card should be, compared to the 5850, in order not to be named 6770?
I belong to the group of people that does not actually care about the name, as long as the price is right, meaning if Barts is Cypress fast and shaves off a substantial portion of yesteryear's products prices, then I am ok with that.
The only reason people react to a 68XX named Barts, is because we are grown up kids now and have come to understand how corporations think. This kind of move would be done probably in order not to drop prices a lot. They will be like, hey we give you performance between 5850/5870 with 50$ less than what the 5870 cost. So F****** what? This was supposed to happen anyway. Then they will move on to price the 69XX parts, higher compared to what previous gens were.
Graphics cards prices have gone up, generation after generation. 3870 -> 200 euros, 4870 -> 250 euros, 5870 - > 330 euros! WTFF? Do these guys at AMD think I am getting a raise every year?
3870, 4870, 5870 are NOT the same class of product.
RV670 was 192 mm^2 and 105 W of TDP, Cypress is 324 mm^2 and 188 W of TDP.
The same class of product as the 3870 today is the 5770. Similar die-size, similar power envelope, similar price.
That is why all this renaming rage is non-sense. It has ALREADY change over the last 2 generations!
So your uncle thinks he can go from a ~$399 card to a ~$299(not accurate) card in about a year and hope for a major upgrade?
Damn... I know common sense isn't that common but comeon, if you can't take 15mins to skim over reviews before you make a purchase you shouldn't be allowed to complain afterwards.
You never know maybe AMD will give a break to customers and sell high-end cards for $300 now
My uncle only knows high-end numbers 4850, 4870, 5850, 5870 and NEW 6870.
I would have to tell him upcoming 6870 is NOT fastest single GPU anymore but 6900 series now.....wait Radeon X2 card??
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I have never said anything like that. Not even 8800GTX is G92-based. My point is that 9800GTX with its 512MB and less ROPs was slower than old 8800GTX. GTS250 added 1GB (ref. model) and brought it back to the level of 8800GTX. GTS450 offers the performance of GTS250 1GB (±5%).
Nobody criticized first rebranding of G92, only some people criticized, that 9800GTX was slower than its predecessor. It was cheaper, it had much better perf/$ and there was no competition - people liked it. And blamed ATi because they weren't competitive.
This situation will be pretty similar, just switched. With one difference - HD6xxx will have more new features/changes than G92 compared to G80. But hundreds of people are screaming and crying because of possible HD68xx naming. The product wasn't launched yet, people have no idea about its performance, but they have already judged it. WTF
reversed filtering for me, please...wish their were a way to filter out all these barts+68x0 posts
ОМG!!! It confuses and people have to recheck the reviews. Why should I waste my time in reading some new articles if I'm used to know that 3800-4800-5800 is the highest end and now, all of a sudden, things change. WTF? Are they crazy?
it only takes about 4 mins to double check a few bench mark reviews and price comparison sites....
if you think thats confusing/waste of time, then you have no place posting on this website. its not suitable for people like you. Stop adding noise to an otherwise interesting thread.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
Actually I am interested in this and I have info about products performance. But it's people's psychology and they don't expect such surprise. Probably you can't understand.
I expect Barts ala 6800 series to be as fast as the old 5900 series. Will it be possible or will I be disappointed and screwed?
I expect Barts ala 6800 series to be as fast as the old 5900 series. Will it be possible or will I be disappointed and screwed?
onethreehill
Newcomer
Time to wake up from your dreams
j/kgamervivek
Regular
If wishes were horses and you knew a specific idiom from hindi, I would be sleeping now. That's the truth.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
WTF? Are they crazy?
I know one who is crazy... Or someone give a me better word for this guy. Expecting/demanding to get the performance of a $600 dual chip gpu only a year later with a single chip gpu on a same manufacturing process for something over 200$ is crazy isn't it?
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UniversalTruth
Veteran
6870 will never ever be 200 USD. First of all.
2) We have already seen two generations in a row which have significant improvements on the same tech process. 3000 series and 4000 series.
3) 3870 X2 and 4870
4) 4870 X2 and 5870
5) Although the process is the same, you cant ignore that it may be much improved allowing better products...
Should I find more reasons or are these more than enough?
2) We have already seen two generations in a row which have significant improvements on the same tech process. 3000 series and 4000 series.
3) 3870 X2 and 4870
4) 4870 X2 and 5870
5) Although the process is the same, you cant ignore that it may be much improved allowing better products...
Should I find more reasons or are these more than enough?
DuckThor Evil
Legend
6870 will never ever be 200 USD. First of all.
2) We have already seen two generations in a row which have significant improvements on the same tech process. 3000 series and 4000 series.
3) 3870 X2 and 4870
4) 4870 X2 and 5870
5) Although the process is the same, you cant ignore that it may be much improved allowing better products...
Should I find more reasons or are these more than enough?
Well if Barts is 68xx and there is a single chip solution Cayman on top of it and dual chip solutions on top of Cayman, then Barts can't really cost a lot over 200$, atleast as soon as the entire lineup has launched.
My knowledge on the history of Ati cards is far from perfect but, as far as I know. going from 2000 to 3000 had only little performance increase, but powerdraw and size was reduced greatly due to process shrink. 4000 series more or less doubled the 3000 series so performance comes from there and the same for 5870 over 4870, this time with a process shrink. You can't double a cypress and sold it for around 200$, because it's too big. You should look for Cayman to get your proper cypress replacement and just once and for all get the f over the numbers!
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Could you tell us how much should it cost, please?6870 will never ever be 200 USD. First of all.
I'm affraid you're still ignoring simple facts like...
- Cypress is 70% bigger than RV670, ATi can't just increase die-size of Cypress by 35% as they did with RV670->RV770. Bart's can't be ~450mm² large.
- Doubling performance of broken <190mm² GPU (RV670) isn't too difficult. It isn't possible to make an extrapolation based on RV670->RV770 transition.
- Barts isn't the highest performing part of this line-up, so there's not a single reason to expect performance comparable to HD5970. That will be Cayman's job, possibly.
- Evergeen isn't epitome of efficiency, but it's much more efficient than R6xx was. We can expect an improvement, not miracles. RV670 had ring-bus, which was replaced by a simplier solution. It had FP16 TMUs, which were replaced by simplier half-rate FP TMUs. As I remember, it supported half-speed DP, which was replaced by 1/5-speed DP. All the units were simplified and bug-fixed. Cypress shares this simplified approach, it has the same memory controller, half-speed FP16 TMUs, 1/5-speed DP. There's significantly less room for efficiency improvement compared to R600 and RV670.
ATi needs counterpart for GTX460. I have no idea if this part would be called HD6850 or HD6870, but such product won't be priced $300+. Its price must be comparable to GTX460 (or slightly lower), so $200-250 range definitely isn't out of reality.
RV670 wasn't half-rate DP, that was CPUs and GF100s business. It was 20% of SP, just like it's successors.
And I've heard more educated people than me talk about the legendary ring bus as being solely an instrument of simplification, that actually saves die area. It was marketed very good as something close to the holy grail of memory acces, though.
Jawed
Legend
DP hasn't changed in basic operation since it was introduced by RV670.
I think it needs to be ~$150 at the lower end.
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