audio questions

[2008 IQ is unacceptable]

1. How is a discrete sound card better than integrated for hdmi/spdif connections? I would imagine they'd be the same since with digital connections the dacs used are in the receiver rather than on the motherboard.

2. I read in anandtech's recent article on LPCM that the ati 4870 doesn't have the content copyright protection required for movies. Are PC games likely to use it or just movies?

3. When games start using lossless 24/96 audio will it only be in 5.1 or 7.1 or will there likely be a lossless 24/96 format in 2 channels?

4. Does anyone here think A3D sounded better than EAX 5.0?

5. PC games don't currently use wma lossless do they? Just making sure it wasn't my imagination b/c to me games from back in the day that used Redbook sound a hell of a lot clearer and have much better dynamic range. Dynamic range in recent pc games sounds very compressed (highs and lows are very limited), so I don't know how it they couldn't be using MP3's.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Yes.

 

[2008 IQ is unacceptable]

Yes.

Yes to all the y/n questions?

 

[Davros]

/Davros gives IQ "the moon on a stick"

 

[_xxx_]

1. better quality components, usually better DAC's and lower S/N ratio. And of course usually more oomph, too.

4. No

5. I know of no games using lossless compression, but that would defy the purpose of saving space since lossless WMA compression ratio is rather mediocre

 

[Davros]

1. are you right on this xxx with regard to the spdif it just pipes the bits to an external receiver, so there would be no difference dacs arnt used with a spdif signal since there is no conversion to analog
2. pc games are unlikey to use content protection for audio, certainly not during the lifetime of the 4870

 

[2008 IQ is unacceptable]

1. are you right on this xxx with regard to the spdif it just pipes the bits to an external receiver, so there would be no difference dacs arnt used with a spdif signal since there is no conversion to analog
2. pc games are unlikey to use content protection for audio, certainly not during the lifetime of the 4870

That was exactly what I thought and experienced, but some people still insist a discrete sound card is clearer even thru s/pdif.

But like you say, that's not possible, because w/ s/pdif the DAC's used are in the speakers or receiver.

 

[Davros]

but a sound card could do superior processing on the sound source (with regard to hrtf, eax ect) before passing it to the spdif

 

[Tokelil]

I think audiophiles use discreet soundcards because they have better shielding, but I could be wrong.

but a sound card could do superior processing on the sound source (with regard to hrtf, eax ect) before passing it to the spdif

What processing is done on an audio signal by the soundcard these days though? (With spdif out) I thought, at least under Vista, that the processing, conversion etc. was done on the CPU.

Edit:
About Q3 and 5 I wouldn't hold my breath for lossless sound anytime soon. Very few people have equipment and ears to hear (besides placebo) a difference when good lossy formats go above 160-190 kbps. And even fewer game in an environment where it matters for a game.

That's not to say some games doesn't use too highly compressed sound, but personally I see no reason for 2 channel sound to go above for instance 160 kbps ogg for 99% of the soundtrack.

 

[I.S.T.]

I imagine the best setup would be to send the audio to a Receiver to process it...

 

[RobertR1]

A full on audio phile won't even consider a PC setup. Too much noise, vibration, interference and so on. Audiophiles (having a HTIB does not make you one...) are some of the most fanatical people, period. Often, just one or even partail of one component will be worth more than most people's full A/V setup. However, a good discrete sound card should reduce the undesireable effects vs an onboard. If you have a good receiver or pre/pro you should just bitstream the track and let them do the DAC and other processing.

If the HD4870 won't even bitstream the new audio codecs on BR/HD DVD, then it's a waste. Eventually I'd like to copy my BR/HD DVD library to a media server and HDMI out to the receiver.

 

[Davros]

"What processing is done on an audio signal by the soundcard these days though? (With spdif out) I thought, at least under Vista, that the processing, conversion etc. was done on the CPU."

eax + hrtf (head releated transfer functions) more important to headphone gamers but still helps with 5.1 speakers

if the game uses openal its done on the souncard if it can.
ds3d + eax are only done in hardware on audigy's + x-fi's under vista

 

[2008 IQ is unacceptable]

I think audiophiles use discreet soundcards because they have better shielding, but I could be wrong.

What processing is done on an audio signal by the soundcard these days though? (With spdif out) I thought, at least under Vista, that the processing, conversion etc. was done on the CPU.

Edit:
About Q3 and 5 I wouldn't hold my breath for lossless sound anytime soon. Very few people have equipment and ears to hear (besides placebo) a difference when good lossy formats go above 160-190 kbps. And even fewer game in an environment where it matters for a game.

That's not to say some games doesn't use too highly compressed sound, but personally I see no reason for 2 channel sound to go above for instance 160 kbps ogg for 99% of the soundtrack.

Dude, pc games have such shitty compressed dynamic range that I think everyone notices the difference.

 

[swaaye]

Dude, pc games have such shitty compressed dynamic range that I think everyone notices the difference.

Blanket statements suck. SOME games are poorly done, but some are superbly done. I haven't run into bad audio for quite a while.

 

[_xxx_]

1. are you right on this xxx with regard to the spdif it just pipes the bits to an external receiver, so there would be no difference dacs arnt used with a spdif signal since there is no conversion to analog

For optical SPDIF, if you just shuffle the original digital signal through it shouldn't matter. But if you do anything with the signal internally before outputting it, you'll hear the difference. Usually you'll have conversion uinvolved even when playing a CD (44.1 kHz -> 48 kHz on pretty much every Creative card for example), so the signal that reaches SPDIF is already degraded.

 

[2008 IQ is unacceptable]

Blanket statements suck. SOME games are poorly done, but some are superbly done. I haven't run into bad audio for quite a while.

You're getting tech quality confused with composition.

Any original composition compressed to 256 kbps is going to decrease the DR of the output of the original composition.

 

[Moloch]

Uncompressed audio is a foolish waste of space indeed, lossloss compression is where it's at.
Of course the OP seems to think somehow something MUST be thrown out with lossloss.

 

[swaaye]

Even lossless is a waste of space for anything aside from archival IMO. It is extremely tough to notice the difference between the original and a ~192kbps encoding with a decent codec. Unless you know what you are looking for, but even then you probably won't be able to actually hear it. I do think all games should use 256kbps, but storage constraints do exist still.

The games with poorly encoded audio that you actually notice are usually at much lower bitrates. I've found music encoded at 64kbps OGG. Now that you can hear.

 

[Moloch]

Well on bluray it certainly isnt a waste of space.
Btw I never use CBR when transcoding audio, VBR is a much better use of space.

 

[swaaye]

Well on bluray it certainly isnt a waste of space.
Btw I never use CBR when transcoding audio, VBR is a much better use of space.

Oh absolutely. Everyone should use VBR these days.