Xbox2 graphics 10 times higher geometry perf. than X800 XT ?

[Megadrive1988]

okay there are various versions of the below statement on the web but I picked this one in particular:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/print/news26_glance.html
Specifications of the graphics engine the Xbox 2 console is reported to have impress much: the chip seems to have 10 times higher geometry and 4 times higher pixel performance compared to the RADEON X800 XT. In case the same applies to the desktop R500, then next year we will see processors outperforming today’s chips in graphics-intensive applications by a factor of 3, at least…

what do you guys make of that statement about Xbox 2 graphics having 10 times higher geometry performance and 4 times higher pixel perfomance than Radeon X800 XT ?


forget the pixel performance for a moment and focus on geometry perfomance. okay we know R420 series chips have 6 Vertex Shader units and a clock speed of ( i forget ) somewhere in the half GHz range... more or less ~500 Mhz. where could Xbox2 graphics possibly get ten times higher geometry performance? the clock speed is only going to be in the ~500 Mhz range. and I doubt R500 is going to have that many more Vertex Shader units.. so the only thing I can think of, is that the ten times higher geometry performance than X800 XT estimate comes from the R500 being able to dedicate all of its processing units towards either geometry or pixel processing. if you want massive amounts of geometry, you can use all or most of these units towards that end.


is that a reasonable assumption?

I don't have the graphics chip knowledge to understand these things nearly as well as most of you guys do.

 

[AlNom]

real geometry or faked geometry ala bumpmapping/displacement mapping/parallax....

 

[Inane_Dork]

Re: Xbox2 graphics 10 times higher geometry perf. than X800

so the only thing I can think of, is that the ten times higher geometry performance than X800 XT estimate comes from the R500 being able to dedicate all of its processing units towards either geometry or pixel processing.

is that a reasonable assumption?

It's the best explanation of the rumor, IMO.

4x the pixel power of an X800 XT is... a lot. If true, every game should be HD, anti-aliased and have post processing effects (bloom, flare, HDR exposure, etc.).

 

[rwolf]

Could be this technology...

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17606

Perhaps 90nm 4GHz math units on a 500MHz chip make the difference.

Heh Heh

 

[Megadrive1988]

interesting. had not thought of that, or I have forgotten. plus I never read that entire thread, pretty much skimmed over it.

 

[Killer-Kris]

Well my first thought on the 10x higher geometry is that they might be refering to effective geometry. If the Xbox gpu and/or R500 has a PPP it would be possible to more effectively use the vertex units.

So it won't be 10x theoretical but rather 10x what you'll be able to see in "normal" use.

Or I could just be totally off base.

 

[ChronoReverse]

What I find curious is how a console GPU is supposedly going to be so many more times powerful than current PC GPUs.

Even with HDTV, do console games even run at a high enough resolution to eat up all that power?

Ah well, it'll come back to us with PCs anyways.

 

[Megadrive1988]

it's not about resolution ( 720p and 1080i will be fine) it's about more geometry and more shader power.

Xbox2 will have to last 4-5 years and at least keep pace with another console that's been in development for ~5 years and has had billions of $ poured into it (PS3).

 

[Inane_Dork]

What I find curious is how a console GPU is supposedly going to be so many more times powerful than current PC GPUs.

Even with HDTV, do console games even run at a high enough resolution to eat up all that power?

There is no such thing as "too much power" from a software developer's point of view. They will find ways to need more than the X2 will have, and then they will come up with ways to address those needs.

 

[cho]

it is possible for a uniform shader pool .

 

[Dave Baumann]

Plus, the CPU's will probably be doing a fair bit of geometry work.

 

[Megadrive1988]

There is no such thing as "too much power" from a software developer's point of view. They will find ways to need more than the X2 will have

<snip>


absolutely true. and X3 will be tailored around what could not be done on X2

 

[Pete]

Yes, you'd think one of the three CPUs might help out. Couple that with ATi's recent interview mentioning swapping vertex shading duties between the CPU and GPU, and the Xbox's UMA and fixed architecture, and sharing computations where possible seems sensible.

But I'm not sure if the rumor refers to the Xbox 2 as a whole, or simply the R500.

 

[pc999]

First I really belive that Fast14 will be in (at least 1 ) "ATI" consoles.

Second ( I know that you are not talking about but ) it is strange that they put all that power in vertex shader and so few in pixel once that pixel processing seems so more important (even with CPU work) ?

 

[Geo]

There is no such thing as "too much power" from a software developer's point of view. They will find ways to need more than the X2 will have, and then they will come up with ways to address those needs.

Well, if they are interested in a PC-port of the game, then I'm not so sure I agree with that statement. That kind of discontinuity might make a port ticklish.

 

[Socos]

If rumors about Microsfot releasing an X-box 2 that is also basically a PC. Meaning it can run X-box and PC games is true then Microsoft may take over the world!!!
I don't know why they would do that. Usually if you have a game for the PC and a game for a console the PC game in general has more functionality than a console game. That is changing and sometimes the reverse is true, but what I am saying is Microsoft could actually be canabalizing XBox 2 game sales.

I will tell you this.. If MS releases a XBOX 2 that is a fully functioning PC, I would buy it in a heartbeat and join the darkside!!

 

[V3]

and I doubt R500 is going to have that many more Vertex Shader units.. so the only thing I can think of, is that the ten times higher geometry performance than X800 XT estimate comes from the R500 being able to dedicate all of its processing units towards either geometry or pixel processing. if you want massive amounts of geometry, you can use all or most of these units towards that end.

From the article that yourself posted on the console forum, it said Xbox 2 can process 64 vertices or pixels/clock. So I suppose that's where 10 times figure comes from.

 

[London Geezer]

If rumors about Microsfot releasing an X-box 2 that is also basically a PC. Meaning it can run X-box and PC games is true then Microsoft may take over the world!!!
I don't know why they would do that. Usually if you have a game for the PC and a game for a console the PC game in general has more functionality than a console game. That is changing and sometimes the reverse is true, but what I am saying is Microsoft could actually be canabalizing XBox 2 game sales.

I will tell you this.. If MS releases a XBOX 2 that is a fully functioning PC, I would buy it in a heartbeat and join the darkside!!

And have Windows run on a PPC or whatever architecture Xbox2 is going to have instead of a x86? Mmmm...

 

[DegustatoR]

From the article that yourself posted on the console forum, it said Xbox 2 can process 64 vertices or pixels/clock. So I suppose that's where 10 times figure comes from.

That's quite a few of them... 64 unified pipelines with one unified pipeline most definalely being more complex than any pipeline, vertex or fragment, from R420, which has 22 (16+6) of them... I won't believe this till i see it

 

[Dave Glue]

You have to wonder how this would affect ATI's high end sales, it seems like they're helping to produce a product that would effectively kill the demand for their PC cards (aside from the professional workstation cards).

Sure, PC gaming and console gaming are still different beasts in some aspects, but as consoles continue to up their ram and resolution the difference continues to narrow. I don't doubt we'll see at least some attempt for a flight-sim style product on one of the new consoles, with the CPU/RAM/HDTV power they're finally capable of them.

It's going to be interesting to see how this develops for sure.