XBox 2 Dev Kits

[ShinHoshi]

Well, it's clear that a Power5 doesn't have the same cost of a Celeron. But it's also clear that IBM will deliver them to MS at a much lower price than others. Why ? Because the production is not very high and everybody and his dog know that if you increase production cost goes down.
On the other hand the Celeron case is just the opposite since nowadays Intel is just manufacturing if for XBOX and nobody else.

 

[Squeak]

It still puzzles me why IBM would support microsoft in any way, after all the stuff they have pulled on them through the years.
Have they no pride, or corporate consciousness?

Within last 10 years, IBM did things like supporting M$ to the point of letting their own inhouse products come second to Windows support.
I don't think corporations of that size even have a notion of pride, nor much of a corporate conscioussness.

IBM supplies windows with their PCs because they have to, and only reluctantly, after they had to admit defeat with OS2, first in the business market in the early nineties, and finally on home PCs in the mid-nineties.

Corporations consist of people, people have pride and ideals (CEOs double so), or at least they should have.

 

[MfA]

Panajev, as Paul put it ... from the Cell architecture "you create microprocessors". If IBM is helping them on circuit design I wouldnt call the PS3's microprocessor design purely a Sony/Toshiba thing.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Panajev, as Paul put it ... from the Cell architecture "you create microprocessors". If IBM is helping them on circuit design I wouldnt call the PS3's microprocessor design purely a Sony/Toshiba thing.

Do I call PS3's CELL micro-processor a pure Sony/Toshiba thingy ?

Sony has received too much collaboration/hints/IPs from IBM for me not to acknowledge their hand in PlayStation 3: when IBM entered into the picture the headlines were "IBM lands PlayStation 3's contract" and they were not just blowing hot air.

There is a reason why Sony is still keeping their relationship fresh with IBM by financing further work in East Fishkill ( which IBM is proudly advertising on their web page ).

Some of the things will not be thinkered with ( internal structure of an APU, etc... ) after the STI alliance finishes with the CELL design.

Also, Marco I think that judging Sony and Toshiba for the 1999 EE is only good to a certain point: it is like judging Intel on the 4004 or the 80486.

Sony/SCE and Toshiba in 2005-2006 will be quite ahead of the level of technology they had ( especially Sony ) in 1998-1999.

It is possible that IBm might make after the Broadband Engine comes out a better CELL chip, but I would not discount the manufacturing technology Sony/SCE and Toshiba have ( as at the end is the same level that IBM will have in that time frame ).

Potentially with the coming of 45 nm Sony/SCE and Toshiba might have an advantage due to the capacitor-less e-DRAM cell Toshiba has been working on ( it is thought for the 45 nm node ), but IBM wll have their own tricks up their sleeves.

 

[Guden Oden]

nowadays Intel is just manufacturing if for XBOX and nobody else.

Why would they only make it for Xbox you think?

Have they come out and said so???

 

[Squeak]

Re: ...

It still puzzles me why IBM would support microsoft in any way, after all the stuff they have pulled on them through the years.
Have they no pride, or corporate consciousness?

1. IBM Microelectronics is losing money.
2. East Fishkill fab is running undercapacity.
3. It was IBM that begged for the deal, not MS.

"What? Intel's charging you $45 for a Celeron?? Come to us and we give you Power5 for same money!" The rest is history...

It couldn’t be for cost reasons only, because by going with a non X86 CPU they are deliberately running into a whole host of compatibility issues.

 

[ShinHoshi]

Why would they only make it for Xbox you think?

Have they come out and said so???

I love these kind of reactions.
Forget it. The Celeron 733 is the most manufactured Intel processor...

 

[Guden Oden]

Shintoshi,

You stagger drunkenly from one end of the spectrum to the other in the space of two posts. Do you have any real information backing up your claim(s), or are you just making up stuff as you go? Because if you are, please tell me now so I can stop wasting my time replying to your posts.

 

[Fafalada]

IBM supplies windows with their PCs because they have to, and only reluctantly, after they had to admit defeat with OS2, first in the business market in the early nineties, and finally on home PCs in the mid-nineties.

I didn't mean that, I was referring to how they used to release new versions of their software for win32 first, before making them for their inhouse OS variants.
To use a stupid analogy, it's almost like Sony would pay TakeTwo to make XBox version of GTA first, before releasing it to PS2.

 

[ShinHoshi]

You stagger drunkenly from one end of the spectrum to the other in the space of two posts. Do you have any real information backing up your claim(s), or are you just making up stuff as you go? Because if you are, please tell me now so I can stop wasting my time replying to your posts

Please, I don't want you to waste your precious time on me. If you have a bit of free time you could check the dictionary and look for the word irony.

PD: It's ShinHoshi, not ShinToshi.

 

[Deadmeat]

...

because by going with a non X86 CPU they are deliberately running into a whole host of compatibility issues.

I think MS gave up on backward compatibility a long time. Hell, Xbox Next doesn't have a HD and even its controller will be missing a couple of buttons. Obviously, MS is cutting cost on all corners.

 

[passerby]

It still puzzles me why IBM would support microsoft in any way, after all the stuff they have pulled on them through the years.

IBM internal management is a bit different. The various divisions and departments work and persue profitability quite independently. The software/OS divisions dislike MS, but this has little to do with the microelectronics/semicon division(s).

 

[nobie]

Don't discount the price issue, a high-end Intel pricessor costs a pretty penny, especially for more than one. Of course MS could have gone with another low-end processor, but then they would be sacrificing performance.

 

[jvd]

I think ms knew if they went with intel they would have ended up with a 3ghz p4 and that just wuoldn't be enough . IT most likely would have cost them more than the power 5 chip (or whatever it may really be) that ibm was willing to cell them and end up having less power than the power 5.


I was really hoping to see them go amd . I would have thought amd would have liscened the ip for the k8 or perhaps even the k9 (if the rumors are true and it will be ready in 2006 ) for very cheap just to give amd x86-64 tech a bigger foot hold .

 

[zurich]

AMD just doesn't have the fab capacity for a contract like XB2... nor do they want to give them away for the prices MS is asking.

 

[jvd]

AMD just doesn't have the fab capacity for a contract like XB2... nor do they want to give them away for the prices MS is asking.

Thats why i said liscense . Ibm could still have fabbed the chips .

With liscensing amd wouldn't have to waste fab space for the xbox , could make a profit on it and a whole lot of games will be programed to get the most out of thier tech which would help amd alot in the pc sector.

 

[randycat99]

IT most likely would have cost them more than the power 5 chip (or whatever it may really be) that ibm was willing to cell them and end up having less power than the power 5.

I just thought this was such a delightful techno-Freudian slip.

 

[nondescript]

1. IBM Microelectronics is losing money.
2. East Fishkill fab is running undercapacity.
3. It was IBM that begged for the deal, not MS.

Uhm, weird I recalled AMD and SCE investing money on east Fishkill and guys like Altera and Xilinx sustain that due to a lot of manufacturers not investing in 90 nm and beyond now there is lack of supply for 90 nm technology.

IBM microelectronics lost money, but their Services sector more than made up for it and that is all what BM has cared so far: also due to the low supply of 90 nm tech they are now facing themselves with more business than they can fulfill.

Just a few comments:

The foundry business is general is booming along:

UMC utilization at 96%, climbing to 100%, they're buying out SIS's fab
TSMC utilization at 101%, shipping 4 million 8-inch equiv. wafers last year, and making 483 million USD last quarter.

But IBM hasn't joined the party yet.

IBM problems at 90nm cause nVidia to look at TSMC 110nm
However, IBM says its doing fine, and expects to make a profit this year. (article originally from NYT).

 

[passerby]

IBM problems at 90nm cause nVidia to look at TSMC 110nm

Probably a good explanation why Sony had to invest directly into IBM's fabs. BTW, off-topic but Sony is probably the only one that does this sort of business investment deals. I mean you never see Nvidia/ATI/whoever invest money directly into TSMC's fabs.

As a little bit of nit-picking, can we refer to the processors by their proper designations? It's a G5 variant(i think) - in turn a variant of the Power4(and a much cheaper variant, at that). Power5 hasn't rolled out yet - even architecture details are very sparse.

 

[jvd]

IT most likely would have cost them more than the power 5 chip (or whatever it may really be) that ibm was willing to cell them and end up having less power than the power 5.

I just thought this was such a delightful techno-Freudian slip.

haha na just my crappy spelling again .


Sony is lucky ibm was welling to sell cell otherwise they'd be standing there with their bleep in their hand