XB360 hasn't got a scaling chip?

[Truespeed]

Aside from getting the location of this hardware wrong, what did he "lie" about?

That this was their "secret weapon". Does anyone know if this chip is to scale

 

[Todd33]

I'm not sure if the 360 uses the same engine, but this was in an ATI doc:

Video and image scaling are critical elements to delivering a crisp final image; video in
particular is often not at the resolution of the device it is going to be displayed on, so scaling it
(up or down) while preserving detail and reducing aliasing is critical. ATI’s Avivo offers both
pre- and post- scaling engines.

The pre-scaling engine allows video to be scaled from the source resolution to the resolution
being requested by an application (the window of a media player, for example).
The post-scaling engines are so-called fit-to-display scalers, and are part of the Avivo Display
Engine, described next.

http://ati.amd.com/technology/Avivo/pdf/Avivo_Whitepaper.pdf

 

[scooby_dooby]

That this was their "secret weapon". Does anyone know if this chip is to scale

Who cares what specific chip handles it though?

The 'secret weapon' was the fact the box had a flexible scaler, and it still does.

 

[MonkeyLicker]

Well, one thing we're sure of right now is that there is no dedicated hardware scaler in the Xbox 360. As for how the scaling is being performed by the Xenos - this is the next area of speculation. For one to use the argument of no discernible performance difference between 720p and 1080p as their basis for their theory of a true hardware scaler is premature and inaccurate. Since there is no baseline you can't really compare the before and after. For all we know ATI and Microsoft may have dedicated processing cycles for upscaling.

This is a prime example of how false information gets spread around the net.
You hear one piece of evidence that contradicts the other and then people jump to their own conclusion.
Most evidence up this this point(including developer comments) point to the 360 having a dedicated scaler somewhere in the system.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Indeed, this thread can surely be closed now? The question was if the XB360 had a scaling chip. The answer is a 'no', corroborating Eurogamer's assertion, but that doesn't mean it hasn't got dedicated scaling hardware; it's just not separated from the GPU die. Debating the PR of the chip package is netiher here nor there. At least, it's not a topic for the technical forum.

 

[ERP]

Evidently not.

Xenos was the first implementation of the Avivo display engine and the scaler is used from the display pipeline there. But, yes, there is specific hardware to do it.

http://www.beyond3d.com/images/reviews/Avivo/pipe-big.jpg

Xenos would be providing the "display pipelines" functionality in the diagram above (although I suspect that the logic would be limited to 1 display).

My information on who designed it is quite probablywrong, since it's from a conversation I had over a year before there was any hardware.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Is there a performance loss when scaling to 1080p or PC resolutions?

If not, then does it matter if its done by Ana or by something else?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Is there a performance loss when scaling to 1080p or PC resolutions?

If not, then does it matter if its done by Ana or by something else?

By all indications, no. So it doesn't matter AFAICS.

 

[Truespeed]

This is a prime example of how false information gets spread around the net.
You hear one piece of evidence that contradicts the other and then people jump to their own conclusion.
Most evidence up this this point(including developer comments) point to the 360 having a dedicated scaler somewhere in the system.

This is a prime example of someone not fully understanding what the word 'dedicated' means.

 

[NRP]

By all indications, no. So it doesn't matter AFAICS.

It only matters to those with an agenda. Not hard to spot them.

 

[Dave Baumann]

This is a prime example of someone not fully understanding what the word 'dedicated' means.

No, you're wrong. Irrespective of where the functionality is, a claim of dedicated hardware not being in one place does not equate to there being no dedicated hardware - there was no grounds for jumping to those conclusions. In this case it turns out that conclusion is entirely false.

Now I am really missing the rep functionality!

 

[Truespeed]

No, you're wrong. Irrespective of where the functionality is, a claim of dedicated hardware not being in one place does not equate to there being no dedicated hardware - there was no grounds for jumping to those conclusions. In this case it turns out that conclusion is entirely false.

Now I am really missing the rep functionality!

I'm still not convinced there is a dedicated hardware scaling solution for the 360. The Xenos is performing the scaling just as the RSX may or may not be performing the scaling for the PS3. What we are left with is just speculation on what exactly is happening. We are now reduced to the theory that there must be special circuitry within the Xenon GPU that performs this function, but we're not exactly sure just as we're not sure there's an SCC chip with the PS3 that may or may not perform scaling. Without definitive proof, no one is right.

This entire mess could have easily been avoided had they just stated the truth and told us the facts. Regardless of what you think, the Arstechnica article is proof that lies were told. There is no justification for what they did and people that try to use the argument that the 'real' answer would have been too complicated for the mass public are incorrect. The truth eventually comes out as it always does in time.

 

[function]

Please peddle your agenda elsewhere.

 

[ERP]

CLOSED: Nothing more to be added and thread has degenerated.

 

[Dave Baumann]

What we are left with is just speculation on what exactly is happening. We are now reduced to the theory that there must be special circuitry within the Xenon GPU that performs this function

You're new here, so you may not realise - I work for AMD's GPG (Graphics Products Group; formerly ATI, the designers of Xenos). I confirmed earlier this afternoon (as reflected in my previous reply) with the display designer as to where the functionality is performed.