WOW!! KERRY 1st, EDWARD 2nd, DEAN 3rd

This caucus pretty much reflected what I felt coming a few weeks ago. Dean hasn't offered much in the form of legislation and "Big Thinking" plans since his burst onto the scene last summer. While I really dislike Kerry's demeanor (he makes al gore look animated), he has detailed his plans rather effectively. John Edwards even moreso, but Edwards has one key thing going for him. He's got personality and charisma. The only difference here is that Kerry had a better organization in Iowa. That won't necessarily be so in the southern and remaining mid-western states.

If things hold pattern in New Hampshire, with Edwards doing much better than expected, we may see him end up with the nomination, and tap Kerry or Clark for VP. Of course anything can happen over the next few weeks, as we saw with Howard Dean's precipitous fall from grace in what amounted to roughly 10 days. This political season is simply amazing. :)
 
Natoma said:
This caucus pretty much reflected what I felt coming a few weeks ago. Dean hasn't offered much in the form of legislation and "Big Thinking" plans since his burst onto the scene last summer. While I really dislike Kerry's demeanor (he makes al gore look animated), he has detailed his plans rather effectively. John Edwards even moreso, but Edwards has one key thing going for him. He's got personality and charisma. The only difference here is that Kerry had a better organization in Iowa. That won't necessarily be so in the southern and remaining mid-western states.

If things hold pattern in New Hampshire, with Edwards doing much better than expected, we may see him end up with the nomination, and tap Kerry or Clark for VP. Of course anything can happen over the next few weeks, as we saw with Howard Dean's precipitous fall from grace in what amounted to roughly 10 days. This political season is simply amazing. :)
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As a repub. I think edwards might be the hardest to beat democrat (other than liberman who will never get the nomination). Kerry is too liberal to get elected. And dean is just plain crazy. And clark is just a republican in a democrats suit. ;)

I hope Kerry now gets the nomination as he would have to give up his senate seat. Making 8 open senate seats.
later,
epic
 
I think Kerry or Clark would be hardest for Repubs to beat, incidentally, the 2 I like the most of the dems running.

Frankly, the dems don't have much to run on other than Foreign affairs, anti ashcroft speeches, and the environment, the former is probably going to be the biggest issue in the general election. Both those 2 guys have war records, and past access to security clearance, which gives them something to put up against Bush's relative victories over the Taliban and Saddam.

If the economy continues to improve (and the press rants everyday how good things are getting, despite lingering deficits and slow job recovery) I don't think thats an issue the dems can run on.

I still think the best dem platform would be to be relatively silent on the economy, and minimize foreign affair rants (other than quoting how we've lost ally support). However, to maximize the invasion of US freedoms, that the patriot act has installed.

Thats a big issue, that hasn't been harped on enough IMO, and one that the US voter would probably respond too in a positive way. Regardless, if you agree with it or not, it could be crafted into some tough rhetoric if done by a savy speech writer.
 
Fred said:
However, to maximize the invasion of US freedoms, that the patriot act has installed.
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What has changed since the patriot act. I havent noticed/done anything different. Ohh, if you mean that now i can't talk on the phone about flying planes into buildings killing thousands, or setting off dirty bombs, then I guess you are right that my god given freedoms have been encroached on. :rolleyes: I guess as a regular joe I didnt notice my freedoms being stripped away.

later,
epic
 
Well, if you trust governments to always do what's good for the people, then I can see why you don't have a problem Patriot act. If you however are like most right-wingers otherwise are, suspicious about governments and their power, then you shouldn't take the Patriot act too lightly.
 
epicstruggle said:
Fred said:
However, to maximize the invasion of US freedoms, that the patriot act has installed.
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What has changed since the patriot act. I havent noticed/done anything different. Ohh, if you mean that now i can't talk on the phone about flying planes into buildings killing thousands, or setting off dirty bombs, then I guess you are right that my god given freedoms have been encroached on. :rolleyes: I guess as a regular joe I didnt notice my freedoms being stripped away.

later,
epic
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Oh lord the Patriot Act. There are many problems with it as it is, let alone the further proposed encroachments on civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism dubbed Patriot II. I've spoken on various parts of the legislation in the past, but if you wish I can bring them up again. :)

As for your "regular joe" speech, well I personally haven't felt the sting of the Patriot Act either, nor do I expect to. But that doesn't mean that others haven't, and that the Patriot Act and its successor don't impinge upon our rights as Americans.
 
Since we are talking political strategy here, and not personal opinion. I do think its a good point that the dems can demonize regardless of whether its appropriate or not.

It strikes me that the other points are a bad gamble. Daschle's speech about the economy being 'poor' is frankly stupid, especially when we're in the midst of a recovery and it very well might come back to haunt them in a year. I mean lets assume for a minute that things continue as they are from last quarter. All of a sudden we have deficits that start to decrease radically as more income is made, and if the job market starts catching up with the rest of the economic indicators... Oof! They could keep their mouths closed, and try to let it slide as a nonissue, but instead they set themselves up for being falsified.

As far as foreign policy, its also hard. Its not like Bush has been sleeping, indeed hes been one of the most aggressive presidents in recent history. They'll have to convince the American people that ultimately we are less safe under his rule post 9/11, than if they were in power.

The other salient issues for dems are things like gay marriage which is unpopular, and Bush has remained very quiet on typically unfavored Republican legislation (like the prolife stance).

Unless a catastrophe happens in Iraq, or Al Qaeda somehow pops out something new, theres very little to work with. Except for the Patriot act!
 
epicstruggle said:
What has changed since the patriot act. I havent noticed/done anything different. Ohh, if you mean that now i can't talk on the phone about flying planes into buildings killing thousands, or setting off dirty bombs, then I guess you are right that my god given freedoms have been encroached on. :rolleyes: I guess as a regular joe I didnt notice my freedoms being stripped away.
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That attitude is just so short sighted. Just because nothing has happened to you (yet) doesn't mean it isn't happening to someone else. There are plenty recorded cases of abused civil rights due to the PA already, well known ones like Jose Padilla, Maher Arar, the infamous National Library Association and American Booksellers Foundation issues are only the tip of the iceberg. Nothing changed? The signs of change are there, you only have to be looking for them instead of sticking your head into the sand...
 
Gollum said:
epicstruggle said:
What has changed since the patriot act. I havent noticed/done anything different. Ohh, if you mean that now i can't talk on the phone about flying planes into buildings killing thousands, or setting off dirty bombs, then I guess you are right that my god given freedoms have been encroached on. :rolleyes: I guess as a regular joe I didnt notice my freedoms being stripped away.
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That attitude is just so short sighted. Just because nothing has happened to you (yet) doesn't mean it isn't happening to someone else. There are plenty recorded cases of abused civil rights due to the PA already, well known ones like Jose Padilla, Maher Arar, the infamous National Library Association and American Booksellers Foundation issues are only the tip of the iceberg. Nothing changed? The signs of change are there, you only have to be looking for them instead of sticking your head into the sand...
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Oh come now Gollum. epicstruggle is a hindu, not an evil muslim. He'd never be targetted by the Patriot Act. ;)

disclaimer: that was, of course, sarcasm, and in no way reflects epicstruggle's true feelings on the matter.
 
Natoma said:
RussSchultz said:
http://homepage.mac.com/lileks/.Public/Yeagh.mp3

Dean's response to Iowa, set to music
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:LOL:

That's hilarious.
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I've actually heard several of these today, with the same basic theme.

I think Dean is dead politically and is simply a source of jokes.
 
Gollum said:
That attitude is just so short sighted....well known ones like Jose Padilla, Maher Arar, the infamous National Library Association and American Booksellers Foundation issues are only the tip of the iceberg. Nothing changed? The signs of change are there, you only have to be looking for them instead of sticking your head into the sand...
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Your right, I didnt realized that people were being effected by the patriot act. Didnt realize it. hmm i wonder what these people would think about it:

David Brandhorst
Christine Lee Hanson
Rodney Dickens
Dana Falkenberg

Take a minute to look up their names. I think they are some of the most poignant reasons for the patriot act.

later,
epic
ps as for sticking my head in the sand, i guess i must be paranoid. I keep thinking that there are dozens/hundreds/thousands of extremist trying to kill any/all americans. Must have been my imagination.
 
Humus said:
epicstruggle said:
Take a minute to look up their names. I think they are some of the most poignant reasons for the patriot act.
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Purely emotional argument.
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Why is that not a valid reason. Id like to think they are the type of people that would be most protected by the patriot act. BTW i would have added more of them but i knew if these 4 wouldnt change your mind then none of the others would matter.

later,
epic
 
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