Will Consoles finally past PC games?

[_leech_]

To think that a closed system could be more powerful than an upgradable system in the long run is being idiotic.

I don't think it is. For one, you have to understand that a closed systems go through their own "upgrades" in the form of better tools, better understanding of the hardware, optimization, etc., a luxury that's simply not available on the PC. Think a 7800GTX will ever get used to it's fullest? Absolutly not, it'll get thrown away far before it ever gets used properly.

 

[Atsim]

Think a 7800GTX will ever get used to it's fullest? Absolutly not, it'll get thrown away far before it ever gets used properly.

But the only reason it's thrown away is because something newer and more powerful has come out, which would be able to perform the kind of stuff that the console developers figured out (whatever that is) and have the added bonus of being faster.

 

[MrSpiggott]

Will PCs, as we know them, even exist in the home to compete with consoles in a few years time?
How do you think the average PC gets used? Playing games, surfing the net, writing the odd email, a bit of on line shopping, editing photos, storing music, viewing porn......?
Now I love my PC, but I resent the huge monitor and speakers that are only used for a few hours a day, the cost of continually upgrading, the conversation destroying noise it makes that means I have to tuck it away in the corner of a spare room, wasting valuable space and destroying it's ability to be an 'always on' video phone or email receiver.
With the advent of HD TV, broadband, wireless keyboards and the increase in processing power all these activities become possible on a console. This may not happen soon, it may not happen until playstation4 or xbox720, but I think it's inevitable, and when it does it's going to take an awful lot of persuasion for me to stick with a PC when everything I want to do can be done with an unobtrusive little box that gets replaced every five years. Of couse PC manufacturers can counter with ultra small and silent form factors without expansion slots, but then isn't that really just another type of console.
At least I'll always have my PC at work.

 

[ims]

6 months after the launch of the consoles and a High end PC will overpower them. Bang for buck though, cant beat a console.

 

[Bobbler]

It seems to me this topic has two questions in it... one is easy to answer, and the other is a bit more difficult.

Firstly, will PC's overpower consoles soon after release?

Of course, consoles don't stand a chance at staying the most powerful thing out (it is arguable that they won't necessarily be by the time they get released anyways). The fact that every 6 months you can upgrade your comp a decent amount means that Consoles don't stay king for long -- it all comes down to cost though: Sony, MS, Nintendo could spend 2 grand and make a console that stays king for a couple years probably, but they can't feasibly do that -- they have to limit themselves to sub 500 dollar (cost to them) pretty much.

The harder question is... how will performance compare between a console and a high end pc over the years? (how the power gets actually used)

It seems to me that this generation will last a bit longer in power comparison (game looks and ability to do things) -- hell, even some Xbox games can give some PC games a run for their money and it is running on hardware that is severely outdated by PC standards. The ability to optimize and the headroom that the multicore processors and shader monster GPUs that are in these next gen consoles should offer far more longevity to the consoles this gen than last gen -- of course we're still limited to things like 512mb ram in them, so textures will have a cap, but other things won't necessarily (at least not directly). PC's will surpass consoles in power soon after release, but developers can't necessarily take advantage of them for ~3 years down the line -- consoles are a closed box where you can code to the metal, as it were. It seems to me that PS3/Xbox360 (maybe even Rev) will stay graphically comparable for ~3 years and then PCs will start showing consoles their place -- we might not see limitations on things outside of graphics though, like world size/complexityt, and physics, and things like that. Who knows though?

Regardless, this next gen should be interesting.

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

6 months after the launch of the consoles and a High end PC will overpower them. Bang for buck though, cant beat a console.

As we go along, the time between the debut of a console and the time that PCs overtake them will grow, along with the costs associated with that advantage in power. One must wonder how long such a paradigm can remain in existence.

PCs will always be upgradable beyond consoles, though I do believe we will reach a point where it is no long economically feasible for many businesses to behave or operate as they have been behaving thus far. This is the inevitability of consoles overtaking PCs... not because they will actually, in the ultimate sense, be more powerful.

 

[mckmas8808]

Your whole point is that consoles will pass PCs because they are a closed architecture?

That hasn't helped them in the past and I certainly don't see it in the future.

No. No. No. No. Noooo. That's not the only point. There are many points. read my post above with the A, B, and C options that PC devs will have to go through compared to a console dev.

This time around consoles are completly changing the way games are being programmed on a mainstream basis. To me this is one of the reasons why PC devs are complaining about it being too early for consoles. They would rather see the console side wait another 4 to 6 years until PC tech is ready to take full advantage of multi-threaded programming.

The thing is consoles will have it now and devs will learn how to program for them because they have to feed their kids. Their companies have to stay a float and letting another company learn it while you sit back will only result in the lazy company losing market share. See EA can't talk out loud and disagree with the direction that MS and Sony went with the multi-threaded games because another company like Ubisoft will be open arms ready to learn the new task.

I'm saying that as far as architecture is concerned the consoles are a bit ahead of PCs. And remember the PC gaming sector is starting to loss marketshare when compared to console games, so expect more PC devs to come on over to consoles. And whom ever has the best games will always determine the future. I mean PCs now need PPUs and dual-core processor just to keep up with next-gen consoles

 

[Dave Glue]

As we go along, the time between the debut of a console and the time that PCs overtake them will grow, along with the costs associated with that advantage in power. One must wonder how long such a paradigm can remain in existence.

PCs will always be upgradable beyond consoles, though I do believe we will reach a point where it is no long economically feasible for many businesses to behave or operate as they have been behaving thus far. This is the inevitability of consoles overtaking PCs... not because they will actually, in the ultimate sense, be more powerful.

You have to keep in mind however that a large part of the timing of this next-gen is Microsoft itself; the 360 is being rushed into the market (and in effect propelling its competitors) due to the mounting losses from MS quickly slapping together a modified PC to respond to the PS2.

Sony themselves have stated they want the PS3 to be a "10 year platform", and after being gouged with the Xbox1 I don't think MS will be in any hurry to release the next iteration of Xbox either;I see 6 years as the minimum timeframe for each of the next-gen consoles to be on the market before we even think of seeing the PS4/Xbox 720. With increased development costs and increased complexity of the consoles, each manufacturer is going to want to get as much software revenue out of that investment as possible. That's a significant timeframe for the PC platform to grow and mature, as it has to.

Secondly, MS has admitted they have been hurting PC gaming, and are supposedly readying a large marketing push to establish PC gaming once again in the retail space. I'll believe when I see it though, I predict it will the 360/360/360 for the next 365 days after Nov 22nd. Vista itself will help considerably though, as for the first time 3D graphics performance will affect the general user experience and not just 3D games, opening up another avenue of marketing for ATI/Nvidia.

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

PS1 was a "ten year" platform. I would bet anything that Sony doesn't expect PS3 to last, literally, for a decade with no new console. They will probably continue supporting manufacture it after they come out with PS4, much like they did with PS1 and will do with PS2.

Console gaming is far more popular than PC gaming right now, and it will only continue to get worse. The only thing really keeping it afloat is the keyboard/mouse and easy online accessibility without much, if any, hassle. Both those things will eventually fall to consoles. There is also, I would posit, a certain amount of nostalgia and a good crop of agining PC gaming enthusiasts who grew up on with PC gaming. More and more this too is being replaced by consoles.

Nobody sane is going to deny that you could build a better gaming PC than Console X, but again, it is seeming more and more inevitable that there will be no economic feasibility to such an action.

I would add that as graphics continue to advance, there will come a point where significant differences are only noticeable by people trained to see the difference. Pushing for PCs that outdo consoles at that point would be suicidal... there would be no market for it. The market is already shrinking as is. I'm not saying this is right around the corner, but it is going to happen unless there is a huge shift in the gaming business... a mass extinction if you will, of the dinosaurs so that the mammals can flourish.

 

[skilzygw]

I really think the PC's have a different style of games. And that is the reason they are a gaming platform. NOT because of graphics.

However with that said. The xbox broke the FPS barrier and became a great FPS machine.
Xbox 360 is getting ALL the great PC FPS. The only thing I'm waiting for next is RTS games like Age of Empires series to go console.
Once that happens Ill abandon pc games forever.

All the pc's would have left is MMORPG's. Which by the way are coming to consoles as well.

I think pc gaming will be diminished NOT because of graphics but because all the "PC STYLE" games are coming to consoles as well. This was never really the case.

What about this way of thinking?
Thanks.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The only thing I'm waiting for next is RTS games like Age of Empires series to go console.
Once that happens Ill abandon pc games forever.

http://my.ign.com/my/sb?pageID=2003&nuaction=gameSearch&gameTitleSearch=age+of+empires

Goodbye PC

 

[pegisys]

I think if all the big developers leave the pc the little guys will take over, because they could make a game without having to pay royalties or buy skd's, so all they would have to worry about is the cost of the game it self, and they could do online distrubution and not have to worry about publishers making all the money.

There is also more freedom to do what you want on the pc where on a console all games have to get approved by the consoles maker

 

[mckmas8808]

I really think the PC's have a different style of games. And that is the reason they are a gaming platform. NOT because of graphics.

However with that said. The xbox broke the FPS barrier and became a great FPS machine.
Xbox 360 is getting ALL the great PC FPS. The only thing I'm waiting for next is RTS games like Age of Empires series to go console.
Once that happens Ill abandon pc games forever.

All the pc's would have left is MMORPG's. Which by the way are coming to consoles as well.

I think pc gaming will be diminished NOT because of graphics but because all the "PC STYLE" games are coming to consoles as well. This was never really the case.

What about this way of thinking?
Thanks.

It is half the reason I even started this thread. On one side I was thinking about the multi-threaded architecture that could give the consoles an advantage, but I was also thinking about the things that you said. And remember there is a GREAT chance that the PS3 will support keyboard and mouse play. Now tell me that wouldn't take lots of people from PCs.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

First.. I think high end PCs will be more powerful than consoles by the time the PS3 launches.

Which is why the 360 launch was so important to be done 'early'. When it launches, it will reign supreme for about 6 months or so. After that? High-end PCs will have overtaken them.

As far as the 6800 Ultra (or whatever) never being used to its fullest abilities.. Why not? Sure, the venerable 9700 Pro wasn't used to its fullest abilities for a long time, but it sure is out of place now, isn't it? And somewhere between now and "back then", wasn't the 9700 Pro being pushed to the max? Of course it was. Unless you upgraded "too soon" to a 9800XT, and even then.. if you sold your 9700 on Ebay, then somebody was probably using it and pushing it to it's max.

I do agree on the point that the multi-core, multi-processing aspect of these consoles will keep them alive longer, because it will take developers longer to learn how to actually use the power of the console.

But, in all truthfulness, one of the reasons I'm so excited about these new multi-core consoles is because PCs will be going multi-core as well. And once that happens, it's essentially "all over" once again, as the PCs will have the upper hand due to upgradability.

Finally, I don't think it really matters to anybody but a handful of technogeeks if the PS3 comes with a mouse & keyboard & linux or not. What MS learned with the TVPC or whatever the name of their stupid product was, is that people don't enjoy consoles and computers in the same way. Even if both are being used to play games.

The console/PC experiences are completely different. Not only in terms of the different styles of gameplay, but in terms of the environments and situations which they are used.

Now, I'm one of the few people who have a HTPC which is also my gaming PC which is hooked up to my HDTV and sits in my living room. Both my Xbox and my PS2 are connected there as well.

But I'm single, I'm a tech-geek, and most people don't have the same priorities/interests/time/money that I have. And on top of that, I still have a PC set up in my spare bedroom that I do all other sorts of "PC" stuff on it.. like spreadsheets, word processing, and even playing an occassional RTS or FPS.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

We're getting to the point where the budget for a game will determine it's viability in the marketplace. When console games start coming out with $100 million budgets, PC devs are going to have a very hard time competing with that due to smaller sales potential. The marketplace is killing homegrown PC gaming, but at an extremely slow pace. Devs will find ways around problems in bringing RTS and MMORPG games to consoles and then these genres will do well on consoles, just like FPS did this generation (unlike before).

You'll start seeing console games ported to PCs instead of the other way around, because PC gaming is more of a lifestyle choice than anything else. There are a lot of people competing to use the HDTV in a family, but most adult male gamers have their own PC. This is why PC gaming will probably never completely die out.

 

[Apoc]

Sure, the venerable 9700 Pro wasn't used to its fullest abilities for a long time, but it sure is out of place now, isn't it? And somewhere between now and "back then", wasn't the 9700 Pro being pushed to the max? Of course it was. Unless you upgraded "too soon" to a 9800XT, and even then.. if you sold your 9700 on Ebay, then somebody was probably using it and pushing it to it's max.

No, it wasn't. Maybe it run slow, maybe it couldn't keep up with new graphic cards, but it wasn't used to the max as pc games have to aim to very different rigs and this makes impossible to use any hardware to its max. It's slow now, but there isn't any game that makes full use of it.

 

[skilzygw]

PC Gaming is what it is. It will have its place but will never be as big as consoles plain and simple. What makes up PC Sales... Sims and its 10 billion expansions, Nancy Drew games, MMORPGS.

Its pretty dead already for my level of interest in the medium. Which is fine. I am getting to the point where I need more than 1 killer app to upgrade my rig, which is what i was doing before. But that is just my personal tendency might not be others tendencies.


And to the person who posted the AOE thing. The PC listed all three versions, all these expansions. Every other console had what one?

 

[Atsim]

And remember there is a GREAT chance that the PS3 will support keyboard and mouse play.

Ever played on a couch with a keyboard and a mouse? Not very comfortable.

 

[Dave Glue]

Which is why the 360 launch was so important to be done 'early'. When it launches, it will reign supreme for about 6 months or so. After that? High-end PCs will have overtaken them.

I'd say the 360 is launching when it is due to MS wanting to knife the Xbox1 baby as quickly as possible, and to get a head start on Sony. The minsecule sales that $600 graphics cards bring is no threat to the 360 at all - a fact I hope MS realizes now.

As far as theBut, in all truthfulness, one of the reasons I'm so excited about these new multi-core consoles is because PCs will be going multi-core as well. And once that happens, it's essentially "all over" once again, as the PCs will have the upper hand due to upgradability.

The Cell and a dual-core A64 are still quite different beasts though - just because they both have more than 1 core doesn't mean code can easily jump back and forth.

As for the PS3 keyboard/mouse issue, difficult to say if it will really be supported that much, after all the PS2 supported USB keyboard & mice as well - how many games did? That being said, there are likely more people with CRT's & LCD's than 720P HDTV's at the moment, and like the 360 there will no doubt be cheap adapters to plug into VGA/DVI - you may see a lot more consoles on desks than living room floor this time around, whether it will be enough to make keyboard/mouse an attractive option for developers is another story. If Sony releases their own PS3 branded mouse/keyboard though...

 

[randycat99]

I think the console hardware of this coming generation will set a new standard. I don't think PC CPU's will be breaking 100 GFLOPs in a year (not even in multi-core form), so that end seems pretty well tied in for consoles, imo. I don't think PPU's will be coming standard in every PC, so that can't very well be the universal "workaround" for GFLOP performance. GPU's will likely scale accordingly on the PC, as time passes. However, it is very questionable if they can really be pushed to their potential with such relatively "underpowered" CPU's driving the show. Even if they could, there are all the traditional bottlenecks of the system bus and main memory bus that would remain a challenge for PC's (w/o some serious re-working of established traditional architectures).

So it seems to me, this coming generation of console hardware will have a lot going for it for years to come (let alone the "1st" year). The only deciding factor left is software breadth (where PC's have a natural legacy). I would forsee that PC's will continue to reign supreme in the domain of running business database and software compiling tasks. However, anything multimedia/graphics/sound for the consumer will be handily overkilled many times over by console hardware. Anything in between will likely run reasonably well, either way, as long as there is a software solution in-effect.