Wii U 'Has A Horrible, Slow CPU' Says Metro Last Light Dev

[Shifty Geezer]

Just pointing out that they said the same thing but with two different spins: "we could probably get it running, but we'd have to work around the weak sauce cpu" was the bottom line each time though. I'm not going to pretend to know what that "workaround" would entail though.

"Workaround" means "make a different game that's the same sort of game but not the same quality as the PS360 version". -

Even his colleage, Huw Beynon, confirmed there would not be a Wii U version of Metro: Last Light, and couldn't justify the effort required to bring a comparable version to the Wii U.
“We had an early look at it, we thought we could probably do it, but in terms of the impact we would make on the overall quality of the game – potentially to its detriment – we just figured it wasn’t worth pursuing at this time. It’s something we might return to. I really couldn’t make any promises, though.”

With a weak CPU, they have no option but to shift work to the GPU, and there isn't enough grunt there to support the workloads the game is asking.

This shouldn't be a surprise. Nintendo have put in a tiny little processor, smaller than one Xenon core and clocked at half the speed. I doubt a game like Skyrim would make it to Wii U either. Nintendo saying they'd make it easy for devs to port games seems to have been creative licensing on their part. This is another compromise that's surely doing Nintendo more harm than good.

 

[TheLump]

"Workaround" means "make a different game that's the same sort of game but not the same quality as the PS360 version". -
With a weak CPU, they have no option but to shift work to the GPU, and there isn't enough grunt there to support the workloads the game is asking.

This shouldn't be a surprise. Nintendo have put in a tiny little processor, smaller than one Xenon core and clocked at half the speed. I doubt a game like Skyrim would make it to Wii U either. Nintendo saying they'd make it easy for devs to port games seems to have been creative licensing on their part. This is another compromise that's surely doing Nintendo more harm than good.

I'm not disagreeing with that

 

[Squilliam]

This shouldn't be a surprise. Nintendo have put in a tiny little processor, smaller than one Xenon core and clocked at half the speed. I doubt a game like Skyrim would make it to Wii U either. Nintendo saying they'd make it easy for devs to port games seems to have been creative licensing on their part. This is another compromise that's surely doing Nintendo more harm than good.

It is a real shame that they'd gimp the console for the one of the genres that seems most suitable to their gamepad, RPGs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah. Tablet would be great for selecting spells, issuing commands to minions, interacting with the world and stuff.

 

[swaaye]

The question is how can Nintendo attract 3rd parties to make quality games of all genres for their console. Their library has repeatedly sucked post SNES, and Wii was the pinnacle of that. I doubt that this is entirely related to hardware specs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The question is how can Nintendo attract 3rd parties to make quality games of all genres for their console. Their library has repeatedly sucked post SNES, and Wii was the pinnacle of that. I doubt that this is entirely related to hardware specs.

Install base with high software uptake coupled with ease of development, and maybe money-hatting deals. One problme I've heard over the years is developers see Nintendo hardware is bought for Nintendo software, and 3rd parties aren't keen to compete with Mario and friends. Genre's Nintendo won't touch like sports and FPS will have an appearance, but if the main interest of the console buyers is fun, family-friendly games, there's not going to be much of a target for AAA core, adult games.

*I'm using broad definitions here just for categorisation. I'm not dividing the market into children and adults or implying no crossover in tastes.

 

[Rangers]

Install base with high software uptake coupled with ease of development, and maybe money-hatting deals. One problme I've heard over the years is developers see Nintendo hardware is bought for Nintendo software, and 3rd parties aren't keen to compete with Mario and friends.

What did some developer famously say? "When you're a third party developing on a Nintendo platform, your biggest enemy is Nintendo, in contrast to the other guys who want you to succeed" or something to that effect.

 

[Pressure]

DF were getting around 3.5 hours IIRC. Add in that typical lithium batteries can halve their storable charge every 500 recharges or so and this thing will need constant recharging, and you'll get all of 2 hours use after a year. It doesn't have the range to game anywhere or be used as a tablet is, so it's effectively tied to the console. May as well have gone with a wired controller, or attached PSU to plug the controller directly into the mains.

That's not how Lithium-ion batteries work.

They don't loose charge capacity per recharge but capacity over time, usually hovering at around 80% after two years usage or 1000 recharges, whichever comes first.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's not what I've read...everywhere I've ever read about Li-ions.

 

[Rurouni]

That's not what I've read...everywhere I've ever read about Li-ions.

http://prowiki.isc.upenn.edu/wiki/Lithium_ion_batteries

The point is that li-ion battery is aging as soon as it leaves the factory, and heat will accelerate the aging process. I think charge cycles don't mean to much, other than the fact that the battery usually heats up a lot thus making it older faster for that small period of time.

 

[BRiT]

So if one keeps their Wuublet charged, in a single year's time it will be down to a mere 2.8 to 2.3 hours battery lifetime given an initial 3.5 hours battery lifetime? Then in 2 years the battery lifetime is somewhere from 2.24 hours to 1.5 hours.

In 7 years the battery lifetime would be 45 minutes to 10 minutes.

Permanent Capacity Loss versus Storage Conditions

Storage Temp    40% Charge 	        100% Charge 
77°F (25°C) 	4% loss after 1 year 	20% loss after 1 year
104°F (40°C) 	15% loss after 1 year 	35% loss after 1 year 
140°F (60°C) 	25% loss after 1 year 	40% loss after 3 months

 

[Johnny_Physics]

Sorry for the off-topic, but reading about the Wii-U reminds me of the OLD speculation on this board about the possible innards and design choices of each companies next-gen console.

The quote is from 2003 and I'm always reminded of this joke when I read about whatever weird decisions Nintendo seems to have made.

Nintendo design spec: you have 150 million transistor spec - this includes the APU, GPU and coffee maker. Make it as simple as possible to program for, that even the idiots at EA can use it without retraining their monkeys. We are using some SRAM tech from MoSys, NEC are promising us 0.0xx tech.. we want pretty colours and Mario's mustache must rendered in billions of shades of black. We are going to use a minute amount of PC133 SDRAM for main system memory - no need to worry we have a good idea of a new fangled compression technology that works on fractals which increases bandwidth 10x also. P.S. make it cheap and get to work. OpenGL kicks ass.

 

[TheLump]

The question is how can Nintendo attract 3rd parties to make quality games of all genres for their console. Their library has repeatedly sucked post SNES, and Wii was the pinnacle of that. I doubt that this is entirely related to hardware specs.

I think that's why they're providing software and assistance to third parties - they're thinking that's enough to help.

Not sure it will be in the long run though.

 

[AlphaWolf]

So if one keeps their Wuublet charged, in a single year's time it will be down to a mere 2.8 to 2.3 hours battery lifetime given an initial 3.5 hours battery lifetime? Then in 2 years the battery lifetime is somewhere from 2.24 hours to 1.5 hours. This is using 25°C and 40°C which I'd say is the typical operating range.

In 7 years the battery lifetime would be 45 minutes to 10 minutes.

Permanent Capacity Loss versus Storage Conditions

Storage Temp    40% Charge 	        100% Charge 
77°F (25°C) 	4% loss after 1 year 	20% loss after 1 year
104°F (40°C) 	15% loss after 1 year 	35% loss after 1 year 
140°F (60°C) 	25% loss after 1 year 	40% loss after 3 months

So don't store your batteries in the oven.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think that's why they're providing software and assistance to third parties - they're thinking that's enough to help.

Can you link to something giving an idea of what sort of support you think devs are getting? A quick Google throws up Iwata visiting developers to try to encourage them to create unique Wii U experiences as opposed to cross-platform games. He even says providing technology isn't part of his remit as developers already have the know-how to develop for Wii U.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Can you link to something giving an idea of what sort of support you think devs are getting? A quick Google throws up Iwata visiting developers to try to encourage them to create unique Wii U experiences as opposed to cross-platform games. He even says providing technology isn't part of his remit as developers already have the know-how to develop for Wii U.

Did that Google say if he brought a bag of money?

 

[BRiT]

So don't store your batteries in the oven.

All it takes is for the battery to remain in the wuublet to be drained at those levels (20% per year at the least).

 

[AlphaWolf]

I was more curious how the higher numbers were at all useful, but I'm unsure why the wuublet would be above ambient (or are you just assuming tropical?) when not in use unless you're just assuming an always plugged in scenario because of the short battery life.

 

[BRiT]

I may be off base, but this is how I see things...

The highest tier 60°C I cant see ever happening, while the 40°C is possible while being charged. I assume it'll be near/at/above 25°C when in operation that is slightly above ambient in winter and slightly below ambient in summer.

The typical daily duty cycle I see is the wuublet being played til it drains then being charged for the same amount of time, then it might or might not remain plugged in. That would be 12.5% time near/at/above 25°C (3 hours play) and 12.5% time near/at/above 40°C (3 hours charging). Then 75% of the time (18 hours) could be near/at 25°C ambient or it could be at/near/above 40°C if it's left plugged in charging.

If it's played while always being plugged in then that would be more time spent at or above 40°C.

 

[TheLump]

Can you link to something giving an idea of what sort of support you think devs are getting? A quick Google throws up Iwata visiting developers to try to encourage them to create unique Wii U experiences as opposed to cross-platform games. He even says providing technology isn't part of his remit as developers already have the know-how to develop for Wii U.

I thought they were providing Unity, Havok and other software to third parties? Or was that just licensing it so it's available?

They've also created a nice environment for Indies to work, they can set their own prices, patch their games for free, set their own sales etc. it's all encouraging, if not revolutionary.