Wii U hardware discussion and investigation *rename

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by TheAlSpark, Jul 29, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. shinobi

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's what i thought.
    really sad some people can be so emotionally attached that they would start making up things up like that.
     
  2. shinobi

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    I mean all these facts being thrown in there face, i can't believe they still believe in GPU magic, the system has so many bottlenecks, just to save a few dollars and they expect the gpu to perform magic:lol:
     
  3. Well

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    No it doesn´t matter.

    All the facts?

    Some people keep saying the ports doesn´t deliver so Wii U is on par with PS360.

    Lets see what Nintendo has to say:
    http://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-wii-u-cpu-isnt-weak-gpu-more-pronounced

    The developer didn´t had enough time with the final devkits. I don´t know how powerful the Wii U really is, because Nintendo didn´t released the full specs.

    We don´t have enough facts. This thread is only speculation.
     
  4. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,661
    Likes Received:
    8,964
    Location:
    Cleveland
    We have enough facts to form highly educated premises. To deny that and say this is purely speculation is disingenuous at best.
     
  5. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    It doesn't matter to me no, but this is what a certain subsection of Nintendo fans seem to want, and they just have to realize its not going to happen.

    When comparing closed architectures, a console with 1gb of ram for games with half the speed of current generation consoles and a 300-350gflop GPU running on an older achitecture, against a console with 5gb for games at the very least, with 6 times the normal bandwidth of the Wii U and a 1200gflop gpu with a GCN architecture. They are just not compatible.
     
    #4385 Inuhanyou, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2013
  6. XpiderMX

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ontopic: Any news about the "x-ray" picture from the GPU?
     
  7. AzaK

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    Awesome, high quality series of posts guys. If anyone's emotionally attached it seems you all are. For what it's worth there are actual developers on NeoGAF and people who do have a pretty good understanding of core tech inside consoles on there; as much as you guys would like to believe you're the only ones that know about anything.

    I think you also need to go and actually read the NeoGAF Wii U threads? There really are very few regular contributors who believe there is any "Secret sauce" in the thing. Most people are just trying to piece together information based on what we know and what's leaked and come up with some sort of idea as to what the GPU is capable of. No more, no less.

    In fact, we're the ones who were keen enough to fork out some money to try and get to the bottom of it. Which is more I can say for anyone else.

    Do you have a link to the 300-350GFlops thing? And what's this "1/2 speed of current generation console thing", I'm seriously confused.

    1-2 days.
     
  8. Hardknock

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes Received:
    53
    From what I understand the RAM has half the speed of the 360/ps3.

    Edit: lol @ the Tags at the bottom of this thread
     
  9. shinobi

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    The ram bandwidth is half the speed of current gen, which should bottle neck the GPU, and the 300-350 gflops is just his estimate.
     
  10. shinobi

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm reading them now, most of it is fanboy speculation the last few pages, every single bottle neck seems to have some sort of magical solution.
     
  11. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    The Wii U's main memory bandwidth is 12gb/s. Compared to 21gb/s for 360 and something similar for PS3. I'm surprised you don't know about that, the bandwidth speed of the main memory was one of the first things actually uncovered.

    What is holding the Wii U's bandwidth up to begin with in order to run any kind of modern game is the EDRAM, and who knows what speed that is. It would not run any game without the EDRAM being used in some fashion.

    As for my GPU statement, its simply my prediction, but don't be angry when it comes close to that. Sonic Racing Transformed dev said something to the effect of "comparable to the current generation but maybe slightly more". That fits a 300 to 350gflop gpu pretty well in comparison to 360 and PS3's 250gflops.

    Either way, Nintendo probably wasn't incompetent enough to put in a GPU that was more powerful relative to the other components in the machine(ram, cpu ect), it would be bottle-necked to high heaven, held back from achieving its potential and in short, would just be a waste of silicon/money for Nintendo's budget.

    I'm personally going with something comparable to a slightly cut down 4650 with some DX11 effects support pasted on.

    I want Nintendo to succeed just as much as anyone, that's why i bought a Wii U and plan to support it by purchasing games in the years ahead. But facing facts, the Wii U is not a graphical powerhouse and is comparable to the current generation.
     
  12. Kb-Smoker

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    1
    Really I feel sorry for the wiiu fans. They were sold by insider on something and they got taken for a ride.

    Power usage this is what we got?

    33 watts max from wall @ 90% psu ~30 watts

    Disk drive ~4 Watts Cpu ~8 watts

    Whats left ~18

    My guesses,anyone have hard numbers?
    2GB DDR3 Ram ~2 Watts
    wifi ~.5 Watts
    Flash Storage/misc .5 Watts

    Leaves about 15 watts for the whole gpu chip

    Its very impressive that this little bit of power can keep up with the ps360. With 15 watts it will be tough to get even 352 gflops on 40nm.
     
  13. shinobi

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well the GPU findings be the end of fanboy speculation?
     
  14. Inuhanyou

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I'm not going to comment on your mathematical speculation there, but i will just say that Wii U's efficiency does more to show how ancient the 360 and PS3's architectures are in the computing world than it shows how good Nintendo is designing technology.

    Its actually pretty tough to find modern GPU's that go that low(to Xenos and RSX level) without the vendor intentionally neutering an existing GPU to get to that level.

    33watts is absurdly low, and shows Nintendo's commitment to the small form factor with super low power draw. On the upside this helps with reliability of the hardware a ton. I'd be surprised if the Wii U even has a 3% breakdown ratio.

    The power draw is only roughly double what the slim PS2 and Wii were actually.
     
  15. AzaK

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry I saw your "1/2 the speed comment" and thought you were talking about general speed as opposed to attaching it to the previous RAM comment. I've know about the RAM speed.

    Oh I won't be angry as I don't expect the Wii U to be much more than the 360/PS3. I just take issue that everyone here seems to brush off everything that's been talked about in the NeoGAF Wii U threads as if everyone there has no clue.

    I just see Wii U as a machine optimised for low power consumption and budget prioritised for the GamePad. Within those limits Nintendo seems to have made a machine that's reasonably efficient with "moderate" capabilities. i.e. No where near Orbis/Durango but also a step above 360/PS3 when everything's taken into account (RAM size, GPU features etc)

    Who really cares whether it's fanboy this or hater that. Isn't it just great that we'll finally get some solid information on the GPU?
     
  16. shinobi

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0

    that's what i'm saying, we will finally know the truth, no more speculation, while people here deal more with facts, on neogaf, it's more like wishful thinking.
     
  17. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40,921
    Likes Received:
    11,506
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    They were dismissing shinobi's query about GAF suggestions Wii U is more powerful than PS360.

    Very efficient, achieving PS360 power with less than half the power.
    This is the sort of subjective position that creates these constant circular arguments. What constitutes a 'step'? There are those claiming Wii U is more powerful, which is isn't. More flexible or optimised in some graphics task, probably, but more powerful overall, not really. So saying it's a step better will be interpreted by some unable to accept the truth when presented with good evidence will be cause them to get to excited and imagine a step as being a half-way point. If PS360 to Orb+Dur is ten steps, than perhaps Wii U is one?

    Indeed. Any ideas what they/you all are expecting to discover? We need eDRAM details and operation more than anything.
     
  18. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    20,800
    Likes Received:
    5,893
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    1tri/clk. Not gonna see uber geometry.
     
  19. function

    function None functional
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    5,136
    Likes Received:
    2,248
    Location:
    Wrong thread
    I think the Wii U does pretty well given its power consumption and mature processes, but overall it's an incredibly weak machine. It straddles the Xbox 360 in terms of capability thanks to its small and slow CPU. And that's pretty nasty for a late 2012 machine.

    I think it's great that a few of the folks at NeoGaf banded together to get some high quality data on the chips in the WiiU. I can't help thinking that some of them are going to be very disappointed though.

    If we know the number of ROPS, TMUs and shader blocks (4 x VLIW5 shader units in R7xx iirc) we'll know pretty much exactly how fast it is.

    I'm guessing 320 shaders, with the possibility of less. Any more than 400 and I will eat my hat. I would need to go out and buy one first, but I would, and then I would eat it.
     
  20. AzaK

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree it's weak compared to tech of 2012 in PC's and Orbis/Durango, I don't think there's much argument there from anyone.

    I'll keep the salt ready to make that hat more palatable but I imagine you won't need it :)

    Sure, terminology plays a big part. What might be a step to me may not be to you.

    Well we're hoping the usual shader counts, ROPS's, TU's etc. I don't know about the eDRAM and whether that sort of thing is easy to spot in a die pic, but I assume it would be.

    I'm not the guy who's doing the purchasing and liaising with Chipworks nor breaking down the die shots, but the one who is indicated that Chipworks are pretty excited about us wanting to know the information and are helping us as much as they can. We'll see what that means in the end I guess.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...