Why we should get next gen in 2018

[deusex]

am not a pc gamer. i play rarely on pc. but i like to keep up with technology. and am going to study computer science / engineering in college this january.

So. when PS4 and xbox one specs were released. all people cared about is the difference between the ps4 and the xbox one. they didn't see how far behind with PC they are. sure. for around the same price. its pretty difficult to get a PC that has the same power. i dont think its possible if you count all the parts you need for a pc. case, cpu. gpu. but. you can get a lot more powerful machines for a little more. Nvidia just released their 2 maxwell cards. 1 at 3.4 tflops. and one at 4.6 tflops. the second one is a lot more expensive. so i will focus on the second one. the one for 3.4 tflops is $329 bucks. thats a great price in my opinion. you can get an amd card at 3.2 tflops for 250 bucks. so. lets get to what i have to say. in my opinion. the current consoles are underpowered. i mean. if a full fledged gpu with the retail configuration and the gddr5 ram and the 2nd guy turning a chip into a device cost money. so would be be safe to assume that the chip for the amd 3.2 gflops card is around $150 max. just the chip not everything else. its probably more like 100 considering 2 companies have to make money. ram costs money. the circuits cost money. cooling costs money. so there you go. I feel like both the PS4 and xbox 1 could have done much more than just 1.8 tflops and awfully. the xbox one 1.3 tflops for their price range. i think the fault is basically recycling 3-4 year old PC gpu chips. modifying it a little. and turning it into a console. i get that console cannot be better than pc as it used to be. because now nvidia and amd push out a new technology every 2 months. so even if it happens it wont really last long. but. I really think both of these consoles should have had more like 3 tflops. or high as 2.8 tflops. not under 2.
not to mention we have tablet processors in them. so the gpu will do both work for gpu and cpu. its not about the graphics. its about making more complex games. better ai. i personally for now. dont want 4k. tvs are too expensive for 4k and i have no plans to buy a 4k tv. and any resolution in between is off ratio and just inferior. 1080 is great enough for most of us. but on ps4 and x1. many games still dont run at 1080p. watchdogs is 900p on ps4, 720p on xbox one. really? what kind of jump from last gen is that. the ps3 and xbox 360 had like 50-100 or even more. the power in ps2, the original xbox. ps4 and xbox 1 have like 3-5 times the performance of last gen consoles. not enough this gen is 8 years old. ps3 and x360 came out only 5 years after the ps2. what the hell happened to making a custom console hardware. why did we start recycling old pc hardware.
I think we should and might see the next gen in 2018. and we should. its a flop. microsoft probably wants to start over quickly. if they ever make a next gen. it seems like they're running away from objectively being a console company. they've been putting out xbox one games on pc. hell. even halo soon will probably be on pc.

anyway. do i think the difference will be big between pc and consoles. graphically. not by much really. games dont sell a lot on pc. even big games really throttle at 1m copies sold or so. and they have to make it work for console afterall. other than graphics. no difference. no complex games or ai because they cant make 2 difference games. it will be the same thing. get ready for gen 7.5 in gaming really. i didnt say anything about the wii u because the wii u isn't intended to have 3rd party games. all they want is their little mario games. which am not against.

 

[deusex]

last gen was also recycled pc hardware (gpu at least). but at least. it was neck and neck if not better than pc when they came out. even tho we had to deal with sub 30 frame rate. god. i dont think i lagged more than 2-3 times for like half a second with the playstation 2. games simply won't advance much than that they did last gen.

 

[deusex]

I bet we will have the same thing next gen. 3-4 year old recycled PC hardware.

 

[shredenvain]

last gen was also recycled pc hardware (gpu at least). but at least. it was neck and neck if not better than pc when they came out. even tho we had to deal with sub 30 frame rate. god. i dont think i lagged more than 2-3 times for like half a second with the playstation 2. games simply won't advance much than that they did last gen.

Not true about last gen gpus. Not with the 360 at least. The Xenos was the first gpu to have unified shaders and it also had the 10mb edram daughter die with extra pixel processing.
The Cpus last gen were also pretty unique for their time. The Xenon had 3 cores each dual threaded before dual core desktop cpus were common. The Cell in the Ps3 is still one of the mpst unique cpus available. So just to be clear alot of R&D went into those last gen systems.
This gen should only last 5 years. I for one really hope that none of the big 3 shoot for 4k gaming. I think it is a huge waste of bandwidth and resources. If we get 5 tflop or more gpus next gen we could have games at almost CGI quality at 1080p.

 

[deusex]

Not true about last gen gpus. Not with the 360 at least. The Xenos was the first gpu to have unified shaders and it also had the 10mb edram daughter die with extra pixel processing.
The Cpus last gen were also pretty unique for their time. The Xenon had 3 cores each dual threaded before dual core desktop cpus were common. The Cell in the Ps3 is still one of the mpst unique cpus available. So just to be clear alot of R&D went into those last gen systems.
This gen should only last 5 years. I for one really hope that none of the big 3 shoot for 4k gaming. I think it is a huge waste of bandwidth and resources. If we get 5 tflop or more gpus next gen we could have games at almost CGI quality at 1080p.

i understand what you said. however. anything between 1080p and 4k is inferior. tvs are either 1080p or 4k. so next gen is either 4k. or 1080p. how do you think people will react if next gen consoles ran games at 1080p. i understand that next gen consoles need to be a hell of a lot more powerful than this gen. probably around 4-6 tflops to run games at 4k with reasonable framerate. 30-60. I think its doable really. nintendo. will not even try to go there. they will still make a console that will be weird as hell. probably just above the specs of the ps4 and x1. just like the wii u. run games at 1080p. and still make it a powerpc architecture so its backwards compatible. and it wont sell well obviously. developers wont support them for the most part. microsoft. hell. am not even sure if they will make a next gen console. the xbox one is selling a lot. not as good as the ps4. but i mean. better than the 360. that should be good enough. but from microsoft actions. who knows really. they've been porting xbox exclusives to pc. anyways. I think next gen will be close between the ps5 and the next xbox. whatever they're going to call it. i dont think they want to have the trend that playstation hardware is better. they will try to make a high performance hardware.

now if you ask me. what are my guesses for the ps5 specs. hmm. before i mention them. 4k seems to be more about hardware optimization, software and simple hardware and well built gpus. there are some 5 tflops gpus that can do 4k. the 780 ti has about 5 tflops processing power. does about 50 frames with bioshock infinite while other bad looking old games give you like sub 20 fps frame rate. its about optimized hardware. lets say that the jump from last gen to this gen is the same for the next gen. we jumped from about 0.2 tflops to 1.8 for the ps4. thats about 10 times. lets say. we upgrade hardware by half that for ps5. thats about 9 tflops GPU power.


Thats more than enough to get 4k and even 60 fps. I do truly believe that the next gen consoles will run 4k at a good frame rate. considering that consoles have better optimization. am more worried about the cpu not the gpu. i really hope we get a better cpu. because the ps4 gpu is worse than the cell processor. its a fact really. less than half the computing power.

if next gen consoles dont go to 4k. then we get 1080p. anything in between. as i said before is useless. though from what i see. we should definitely get 4k. without a doubt. and even more room to enhance the graphics. i think we should start working on things more important than resolution. color saturation. and complex worlds and lighting effects. better ai and all that stuff. after all you can have a 1080p game that looks way better than a 4k game.

 

[deusex]

all of that considering that we recycle pc stuff. there shouldnt be much research and development put in that.

 

[tuna]

all of that considering that we recycle pc stuff. there shouldnt be much research and development put in that.

If that is the case, why do we not see more consoles from other manufacturers?

 

[Karamazov]

they can't afford to sell consoles at a loss anymore, that's why, Sony is in terrible shape financially. If they had the Money nintendo has i'm sure the ps4 would have been more powerful. Still i'm satifsied with what the ps4 is, since i am not a pc gamer the jump from my 360 is big enough for my enjoyment.
Amazing games are coming and that what matters.
For master race people they might find what they want in the near future with the steam consoles, i may buy one in 2-3 years maybe if it's as easy to use as a console, and if i can use it with a PS4/xbox one controller, beceause i hate the owl design of their steam controller.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

PS4's not bad, but I find myself in the position of having enough of a PC that a £100 GPU will give me a way more powerful machine. That said, the content shown for PS4 still makes it in some ways appealing. But the days of the consoles being an obvious choice due to the economy advantage are over, which makes the competition from PC so much greater.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

PS4's not bad, but I find myself in the position of having enough of a PC that a £100 GPU will give me a way more powerful machine. That said, the content shown for PS4 still makes it in some ways appealing. But the days of the consoles being an obvious choice due to the economy advantage are over, which makes the competition from PC so much greater.

I have to say that I've been tempted back to PC for a little while now, but I'm one of those sick kinds of people that'd have to get a top-of-the-range GPU to feel remotely satisfied. When I used to game on PC, I was forever messing about with the settings and using benchmarking software. It accomplishes nothing really. I do like the consoles because someone's been paid to optimise for them, even if that used to be part of the fun.

I'd be really disappointed if I were to splash out on a PC only for it to look marginally better than the current gen stuff. I would want more than just framerate or resolution increases.

Regarding the next gen of consoles, I don't think we'll see them for a few years yet. Just to get a PS4/Xbox One games running at 4k you'd need at least 4x the computing power - 8tf. I would want to play games that are both 4k and have a massive increase in fidelity. Not gonna happen for a while now.

I have a funny feeling that the next machines are going to be built for gamers primarily. I'd expect MS to come in hard too.

 

[orangpelupa]

But with such high resolution, developers maybe prefer to stick to 1080p and make their game have crazy graphics. Rather than spending power for resolution.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

But with such high resolution, developers maybe prefer to stick to 1080p and make their game have crazy graphics. Rather than spending power for resolution.

It depends on market penetration of 4k TV's really. If I've got one in a few years (most likely), then I'd like the games in that resolution too. If they're uncommon when next gen comes, then yeah, huge fidelity at 1080p.

 

[Boxercide]

Is this a personal blog? How is this a technical analysis in the slightest?

 

[Pixel]

A jump to 4k for consoles and couch gamers would be ridiculous. It would mean significantly retarding image quality per pixel in favor of higher resolution.

And to really appreciate 4k you run into two dilemmas for couch/livingrooms. Its a different situation for desk sitting 4k computer monitors.
A) you need a very big & expensive tv to appreciate a 4k resolution at couch sitting distance of 10 ft or more
B) the size of screen vs ideal distance of the screen from the eyes means at almost any ideal viewing distance would cause eye fatigue from the eye constantly having to shift around since it gets even less of the screen in focus.

An ideal size ofr a screen at 10ft away would be +100". I can't imagine how expensive that would be for lcd matrix display, only a projector would be realistic, and the screen size would cause alot of eye movement, which would quickly cause eye strain.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I've got a 49" 4K TV and from 6-7ft away I can not perceive any difference between 1080p and 4K. Video, pictures, UI. Nada.

I'd prefer better quality 1080p than machines straining to output 4K content. But 2018 is a long way odd.

 

[eastmen]

We need new consoles in 2018 for VR not really new tvs. VR is going to be huge and this generation of consoles just wont cut it.

I think next generation we will get another APU set up with a secondary gpu . NVidia is using sli in Maxwell to render one eye per gpu.

A jump from 28nm Apu's to 9nm APU's will be a huge increase in performance. Throw in a second gpu for rendering and a 4k head set shouldn't be hard to render for at all

 

[shredenvain]

I've got a 49" 4K TV and from 6-7ft away I can not perceive any difference between 1080p and 4K. Video, pictures, UI. Nada.

I'd prefer better quality 1080p than machines straining to output 4K content. But 2018 is a long way odd.

I agree.

 

[blakjedi]

I've got a 49" 4K TV and from 6-7ft away I can not perceive any difference between 1080p and 4K. Video, pictures, UI. Nada.

I'd prefer better quality 1080p than machines straining to output 4K content. But 2018 is a long way odd.

Agreed.

 

[BRiT]

I've got a 49" 4K TV and from 6-7ft away I can not perceive any difference between 1080p and 4K. Video, pictures, UI. Nada.

I'd prefer better quality 1080p than machines straining to output 4K content. But 2018 is a long way odd.

A good part of that is existing 4K TV sets are pretty much shit when compared to the better/best Plasma 1080p sets.

 

[Globalisateur]

Please could you make some efforts about the presentation, editing and logical structure of your (future) posts? That's really painful to read.

Anyway, I disagree, 2018 is way too soon.