Why do some people dislike motion interpolation for anime and real-life movies/series?

orangpelupa

Elite Bug Hunter
Legend
for me, its a must-have feature to eliminate stutter while on panning scene (so de-judder=1 in my tv), and most anime look marvelous with full-blown 60fps interpolation (with the proper method, thus practically invisible artifacts). So im curious, why do some people dislike motion interpolation for anime and real-life movies/series?

googling around, people simply say its becaise they look bad. but didnt elaborate why.
 
For animated stuff, it is fine. It makes the video look like a cutscene implemented with 3D engine, and in this case it feels 'right'.
For live action, with bad implementation it produces weird unnatural movements occasionally. Also makes it seem like cutscene which feels 'wrong' in this case. With good implementation, it feels like you are watching a theatre play instead of a movie. So the result seems wrong, compared to what I expect watching a movie.
 
For animated stuff, it is fine. It makes the video look like a cutscene implemented with 3D engine, and in this case it feels 'right'.
For live action, with bad implementation it produces weird unnatural movements occasionally. Also makes it seem like cutscene which feels 'wrong' in this case. With good implementation, it feels like you are watching a theatre play instead of a movie. So the result seems wrong, compared to what I expect watching a movie.

isn't that due to the interpolation being dialed way up too much? or even a minimum of interpolation (e.g. just a smidge, only to the background when the screen is panning) also make it looks wrong?

for example on SVP app and my LG TV, it has parameters where interpolated movies can still look similar enough to non-interpolated, and can be dialed to 11 to heavily interpolated into a super smooth soap opera.
 
Very first thing I do when I buy a TV (or turn on a TV when on holiday) is find out how to turn off the soap opera effect. It's just appalling.

This has been true of all of the LG and Samsung TVs I've owned/used in recent years so I don't think it's necessarily just the implementation. It's the effect itself.
 
Very first thing I do when I buy a TV (or turn on a TV when on holiday) is find out how to turn off the soap opera effect. It's just appalling.

This has been true of all of the LG and Samsung TVs I've owned/used in recent years so I don't think it's necessarily just the implementation. It's the effect itself.

This always fascinated me. So many humans have been conditioned over years or decades that 24 or 30FPS is the "right" framerate for television and movies, yet here we are on a 3D-graphics-centric internet forum where we aim for high visual fidelity at high framerates.

Why are high framerates looked down upon as the "soap opera effect" when in fact they should be preferable and more life-like? I know the techincal origin of the definition of "soap opera effect" btw, before someone tries posting it up as a non-sequitor ;)
 
I don't watch any animated stuff so it's all live action. I leave TV interpolation off. It's interesting and can help with the OLED strobe problem but I always see artifacts with it. I've tried SVP too and would never run that full time.

More basic smooth motion interpolation like with madVR or MPV doesn't seem to cause any problems though and reduces stuttering caused by refresh rate / frame rate mismatch.
 
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The first thing I do with any video (movies, TV series, shorts, whatever) that I grab to watch is I use interpolation software to transcode it to 60 FPS. Yes, the interpolation isn't perfect (occasional unintended motion prediction artifacts), but it's still MASSIVELY better than 24/30 FPS video.

I applaud any and all video/movie producers that release their content at a minimum of 60 FPS. Thank you for releasing quality stuff and not forcing me to use interpolation software to transcode 24/30 FPS content.

I'd use the motion interpolation of the TV, but since all my TVs are hooked up to PCs, the resultant input lag is annoying even if it makes movie watching better (I'm assuming that the motion interpolation of TVs is at least close to what you can attain with interpolation software using proper settings.

24/30 FPS is just too unnatural (stutter/judder) to watch.

Regards,
SB
 
I love 60fps+ anime/shows! I don't get the 24fps hold outs. I get it when frame interpolation is badly implemented or blurs and such, but when it works it's just stunning to me and so much smoother and easier to watch and see details with.
 
I pretty much watch things how they were intended to be viewed. Calibrated and interpolation off. There’s a huge amount of effort put into creating the look of a film, so that’s how I’m going to watch it. If new movies ever switch to 48 or 60 fps, then that’s how I’ll watch those.
 
Its funny anime is mentioned since some of the best animation work from Studios like Ghibli uses varying low frame rates for different objects in a single scene.

The reason no sane person likes motion interpolation is because it looks like absolute ass. IQ issues aside, it just doesn't look normal. Like a drunk person is holding the camera and every small motion gets over empathized. Yes judder is a thing but even on my OLED its infrequent enough that it doesn't really bother me. It only is really noticeable in panning scenes at a certain speed.

That doesn't mean high fps is always bad. It works for sports. Watching Formula 1 at 50fps is better than the normal broadcast and gives a better sense of speed.

Maybe the future is something like what Avatar 2 is apparently doing. I haven't watched it yet but as I understand the "normal" scenes are all 24fps (double to match 48fps) while certain specific scenes are in 48fps to give better clarity during shots with a lot of movement. To me this seems like a much better solution than just making everything high fps.
 
The visual language of movies just has to change with 60 fps film. It looks weird. The picture is so clear that you can lean into it and come up with a new visual style, or your movie just ends up looking like a bunch of people wearing costumes. Even acting looks significantly worse because you can see a lot more subtleties in the faces of the actors.

Ang Lee has tried it twice and it's looked pretty horrible. It looks like a bunch of people playing around. I think both were 120 fps?

The Hobbit arguably did it better, but I still think it looks weird. The costumes look like costumes and the sets look like sets. That's the only way I can explain it.
 
then how about using motion interpolation just for the background and/or panning scenes? and just minimally.

with SVP, it can be done by changing the.... uh... which parameter was it... "motion vector" to large. on LG TV... there's no such option, but with dejudder to 1, the smoothing is minimal enough that only visible on panning scenes most of the time.

thus it eliminates panning judder/stutter while keeping the movie style mostly the same.
 
Maybe the future is something like what Avatar 2 is apparently doing. I haven't watched it yet but as I understand the "normal" scenes are all 24fps (double to match 48fps) while certain specific scenes are in 48fps to give better clarity during shots with a lot of movement. To me this seems like a much better solution than just making everything high fps.
I don't like HFR on TV, but it does wonders in Avatar 2. Beyond varying FPS, perhaps it works well because all the HFR scenes are full of 3d and look not natural anyway.
 
I watched Gemini Man on my new OLED at 60fps and it was definitely a new experience. Since my brain is so used to 24fps content, it looked weird, as mentioned almost too crisp. It certainly does look good though. I think viewing a lot more HFR content like that I'd eventually get used to it and enjoy it better, with regular content being ugly.

Kinda of how I feel about HDR content. It's hard to go back now.
 
For me it's case by case basis. But most movies looks weird with full interpolation, looks great with minimum interpolation (dejudder at 1).

48 fps on the other hand looks perfect to me. Hobbit was amazing
 
I watched Gemini Man on my new OLED at 60fps and it was definitely a new experience. Since my brain is so used to 24fps content, it looked weird, as mentioned almost too crisp. It certainly does look good though. I think viewing a lot more HFR content like that I'd eventually get used to it and enjoy it better, with regular content being ugly.

Kinda of how I feel about HDR content. It's hard to go back now.

That weirdness will go away as you realise that the higher the frames per second the more closely the content matches reality. Then it comes down to how much you notice (and whether it's annoying or not) any potential interpolation artifacts during fast motion. An object oscillating back and forth can do that if the movement of the object changes direction between frames. Of course, that isn't a problem for anything natively filmed at 60 FPS or 120 FPS.

It's just amazing how well the human brain has been trained (like Pavlov with his dog) to think that 24 FPS for movies looks more realistic when it only looks realistic in the sense that humans have been conditioned to think that 24 FPS in movies is even remotely realistic.

Sure as some people have mentioned the whole un-reality of 24 FPS in movies might help to hide the un-realness of sets, lighting, makeup, imperfect CGI, etc. but it's still all highly unrealistic.

Having motion and clarity that more closely matches how we visually perceive the world can make it more difficult to hide the tricks used in films to try to manufacture certain scenes, but it's still (IMO) significantly better visually than having to view it through a lens that is so disjointed due to low FPS.

I haven't been to a theater since the last Lord of the Rings movie in 2003. So, now whenever I actually see any content presented at 24 FPS, it's jarringly bad and incredibly unrealistic and 30 FPS content isn't any better.

I talked at length with a film director who does his own cinematography recently about his choice of 24 FPS while trying to convince him to try releasing his films at 60 FPS. The conversation boils down the key points from what I got out of it.
  • He understands that 60 FPS (or even 48 FPS) would provide a more realistic look for his films and allow them to more closely mirror what people see when they see things in day to day life.
  • He deliberately sticks to 24 FPS because while it's not a realistic presentation he likes the artistic look of 24 FPS for artistic films because it's what he grew up watching.
  • If he was making a slice of life movie, a documentary, a biography, filming someone's wedding, etc. he'd choose 60 FPS because it would be superior to 24 FPS in all ways, but since he focuses on artistic content he feels that because 24 FPS is so disconnected from reality it helps the artistic presentation of his films.
It was a very interesting talk that covered more than that, but those are just the points relevant to this discussion.

This thread reminds me of when some people I know in RL stated that they hated 1080p for movies and TV shows because the extra clarity made things look worse ... made them not look "real". Whenever I remind them of those words, they can't believe they actually said them. :p

Regards,
SB
 
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What about 48fps movies on 120Hz TVs? I'm guessing it would have to do some kind of pulldown like 60hz TVs and 24fps.
 
It's just amazing how well the human brain has been trained (like Pavlov with his dog) to think that 24 FPS for movies looks more realistic when it only looks realistic in the sense that humans have been conditioned to think that 24 FPS in movies is even remotely realistic

Absurd, HFR in movie flicks is scathed rightly because it messes with "suspension of disbelief" , not because it's more realistic. And that's supposedly a dream-like effect. Also it can look realistic in the sense you supposedly don't dream in HFR either.
 
Absurd, HFR in movie flicks is scathed rightly because it messes with "suspension of disbelief" , not because it's more realistic.
You know I think you touched on why I wasn't really sure about liking Gemini Man at 60fps. The whole time watching it I kept thinking that it looks too real, as if I wasn't actually watching a movie experience.
 
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