What's the real reason why the GFFX is delayed?

[nonamer]

I've heard a lot of reasons/guesses to why the GFFX is delayed to Feb. But does anyone actually know?

 

[overclocked]

No!

 

[BRiT]

Yes. But only people inside of Nvidia know all the reasons.

 

[Basic]

IP issues against the company from Mars that designed the UFO that nVidia took the ideas from. If you think American lawyers are tough, you don't want to meet a lawyer from Mars with their Martial law.

 

[Brent]

IMO

it was the wanting to push .13 thing

and

the wanting to use DDR2 (which wasn't ready yet)

 

[megadrive0088]

And GFFX has not just been delayed a few months, from fall to Jan-Feb, it's actually been delayed almost 1 year. it was supposed to be out spring 2002.

 

[Geeforcer]

That's the second time I see you say that. Who was going to make a 125M 13 micron chip last winter?

 

[jvd]

Well who knows what they've added. Last year it may have only been a 100million. As ati showed thats very doable. Or does nvidia not have the skills to do that ?

 

[Randell]

I think the assumption (and a pretty vaild one) as that the Gf4 was delayed (remember nVidia promising the Autumn 2001 product would be a new product and not just a Gf3 refresh).

So if all had gone according to plan: Gf4 Autumn 2001, GFX Spring 2002.

Og course this belays outside factors - DX9 changes, feature creep etc etc. Some delay may have been planned, some may have been forced (0.13) etc.

 

[jvd]

I'm hearing from my sources (my dog) that nvidia got illega sat boxes and spent all thier time watching the playboy channel

 

[Gunhead]

The best guess I've seen is that TSMC's copper & low-k dielectric 0.13 micron process didn't get ready in time, and they had to switch process to the 0.13 without low-k dielectric (hence higher voltage to combat interference and the leaf blower, on top of the embarrassing delay).

I'm no engineer myself, tho, so feel free to correct me whether I'm wrong or not

 

[Andrew]

The specs of the NV30 have stayed the same for around 9 months, so the delay was not because nVidia decided to add features in order to compete with ATI. You can read about this on the first page of the GFFX preview on annands.

I personanlly believe it was due to to a bad decision by nVidia to go with .13u as well as putting faith into a company (TSMC) to perfect a still very young technology so quickly. One thing ive learned from looking at the PC components business is nothing is ever released on time, and when it is, usually isnt finished.

 

[sancheuz]

We shall see a limited quantity of geforcefx in stores within 2 to 3 weeks, and full blast around january 20

 

[Randell]

The specs of the NV30 have stayed the same for around 9 months, so the delay was not because nVidia decided to add features in order to compete with ATI.

I never said that, but when was the decision taken to go so far beyond DX9 PS specs? when were DX9.0 specs finalised? Could a DX9 card have been ready for Spring this year if the 0.13 process was fine?

So if the design was final in Feb I bet more features were added from the first design spec if that was aimed at early 2002.

 

[antlers]

We shall see a limited quantity of geforcefx in stores within 2 to 3 weeks, and full blast around january 20

This would seem to imply that IHV's already have their hands on production chips. This seems quick if last week TSMC had started "small-volume test production".

Maybe all IHV's will be selling reference boards produced by a single manufacturer, like with 9700's?

 

[Andrew]

We shall see a limited quantity of geforcefx in stores within 2 to 3 weeks, and full blast around january 20

This would seem to imply that IHV's already have their hands on production chips. This seems quick if last week TSMC had started "small-volume test production".

Maybe all IHV's will be selling reference boards produced by a single manufacturer, like with 9700's?

Last thing I read from TSMC was that they were going into full production right now, and have been producing chips in small quantities for a short while as well.

Also, if nVidia is giving out a few GFFX's at that computer show CPL(?) later this month, then they definately have a small flow of finished products.

 

[Bambers]

They don't have to have GF FXs at cpl to offer them as prizes. They could always just post them in jan/feb to the winners.

 

[megadrive0088]

I think the assumption (and a pretty vaild one) as that the Gf4 was delayed (remember nVidia promising the Autumn 2001 product would be a new product and not just a Gf3 refresh).

So if all had gone according to plan: Gf4 Autumn 2001, GFX Spring 2002.

all that is true AFAIK.


anyway, it'll be interesting to see if any GFFX cards actually make it to store shelves before the end of Dec.

 

[speng]

Pushing Technology

I think the delay has to do with the overall aspects of moving to new technology fast.

Not only from Nvidia's standpoint, but TSMC and everyone who is moving towards .13nm processes. Except the 300-mm fab plants.

Several key pieces of 300-mm chip production equipment remain immature, with an estimated 20 percent overall gap between the targeted productivity and today's throughput, Chen said. The 300-mm lithography wet bench tools and control software, are not nearly as efficient as the 200-mm systems, Chen said, adding that TSMC is expecting some "breakthrough" from a wet bench equipment supplier that he declined to detail. Those tools provide resist and other chemicals to the wafers during the key lithographic steps.

There are lots of things that seems to need to fall into place before the process goes smoothly.

http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20021209S0066

ATI may face these same or similar obstacles, but to a lesser extent.

Speng

 

[BRiT]

We shall see a limited quantity of geforcefx in stores within 2 to 3 weeks, and full blast around january 20

Please don't take the following personally, but... What makes you so sure? In the past you doubted The Inquirer's article on NV30 which was pretty spot on ( http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46990&highlight=#46990 ), and you also doubted ATI would move to the R350 chipset so soon which it is ( http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44422&highlight=#44422 ) and you doubted the production issues with NV30 which did happen ( http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44914&highlight=#44914 ). Are you just grabing for straws as you were in the past or do you have solid information this time around?