What a game needs to be a sales success *spinoff

Mod : This thread is a spinoff from the Uncharted game thread where talk turned to sales and comparisons with other titles. As the discussion was doomed to go ahead regardless, I've spawned it into a new thread to leave the Uncharted thread clean. I'm not sure about the title so we'll see where this thread actually goes.



Hasn't uncharted sold like 2 million? Thats rather good (not great, considering it has been bundled quite a bit)

There is never to few systems, just not good enough games (or not marketed enough). Call Of Duty 2 sold 2 million titles unbundled during the first 3 or so launch months for the X360, Uncharted launching a full year after the PS3 launch, cannot use the "to few systems" argument.

On it's own, no way has Uncharted sold 2million. It never charted in NPD's here. It had a mid range debut in the UK and hung around the low end of the Top 40 for a bit and then fell off. I'd question even 1 mil on it's own.

Uncharted is an internet praised game. It's actual sales were simply not that good for whatever reason. I'd say the lack of a good MP and co-op hurt the game. An 8hour SP with little replay ability (unless you want to collect items) is what did it in, atleast in the US. Hyping it to the moon by the same people repeatedly doesn't mean it translated to sales.
 
On it's own, no way has Uncharted sold 2million. It never charted in NPD's here. It had a mid range debut in the UK and hung around the low end of the Top 40 for a bit and then fell off. I'd question even 1 mil on it's own.

Uncharted is an internet praised game. It's actual sales were simply not that good for whatever reason. I'd say the lack of a good MP and co-op hurt the game. An 8hour SP with little replay ability (unless you want to collect items) is what did it in, atleast in the US. Hyping it to the moon by the same people repeatedly doesn't mean it translated to sales.

It sold well over a million by itself (not 2 million). As I said, Uncharted sold more than Bioshock and Mass Effect in relation to install base.

Not having MP and Co-op has nothing to do with its sales. AC has neither.

And it has plenty of replay value beyond collecting items (i never replayed to collect items). And noone's hyping it to the moon. I think it's a solid 9/10 game.

AC sold better because of marketting, because you're an Assassin doing Parkour (which is incredibly cool for the demographic).

And...I don't think I'd be wrong in saying that "Assassin's Creed" or "Tomb Raider" area much more marketable titles than "Uncharted: Drake's Fortune"...the more marketable ones describe the gameplay (Assassinating/Tomb Raiding)....Uncharted: Drake's Fortune...means nothing to a potential buyer. Sorry Naughty Dog, but the title might be clever, but it's not marketable...and you'll have to stick with it now.
 
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That;s your opinion, I view it as a cop-out personally, as if to say it's not the games fault it didn't sell well...it's the marketing.

Sure, AC was marketed well, and that is surely part of the reason for it's massive sales, surely the other, more important part, is that it struck a chord among gamers. It's the sort of game that doesn't need heavy marketing, because at the mere mention of the concept people are already excited.

Well, consider that it didn't do that well in reviews, which were quite divided. What you're describing, 'struck a chord among gamers', then, is mostly translation of: 'Ubisoft had a really impressive marketing campaign'.

Just a note: as a counter-example to 'Uncharted did poorly because of...' we have Gears of War. It was released one year into the 360's lifespan and it was new IP. And it did 5 million, supposedly. The real variables there are install-base and marketing effort. How much larger was the 360's install-base in late 2006? Dean Takahashi's RROD story says that in 2006 the PS2 outsold the 360, for what it's worth.
 
Uncharted is an internet praised game. It's actual sales were simply not that good for whatever reason. I'd say the lack of a good MP and co-op hurt the game. An 8hour SP with little replay ability...
Hang on, how does that compare to AC?! Seems pretty much on a par. Neither has coop, online multiplayer, or a long game. If they're reasons to not buy Uncharted, they're reasons to not buy AC too, surely?

I'll add to my previous post that I think, at the end of the day, the market is just plain fickle and unpredictable! You can't look at a title prior to launch and accurately gauge whether it'll sell 5 million, 1 million, or a few hundred k if you're lucky. There have been top rated, excellent games that haven't sold, and trashy titles that have outsold them. In general, the better the game (review scores), the better the sales, because people aren't particularly keen to buy a known turkey, but no developer can sit down and pencil out a sure-fire 4 million seller. If they could, they would all be doing it!
 
How'd it sell well over a million? No numbers I've seen from charts would support anything like that.

We don't really have access to the charts, which is a problem. The only thing I've seen listing Uncharted sales is something that points to vgchartz of all places, back in January 2008. Reliability is highly questionable, but then you might see some legs for the game from word of mouth. And isn't it Platinum/Greatest Hits in Europe (or is that awful yellow case a mockup)?
 
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In general, the better the game (review scores), the better the sales, because people aren't particularly keen to buy a known turkey, but no developer can sit down and pencil out a sure-fire 4 million seller. If they could, they would all be doing it!

I think, actually, that good marketing can be seen carry more weight than good reviews. Of last year's top 10 best-selling titles, I think only Halo 3 and CoD4 stood out as 9+ (I'm not sure if Super Mario Galaxy made it to top 10, if it did, that's another). Guitar Hero 3, AC, Madden, they were all 8s. (And as I remember, Bioshock doesn't even show up on that list). And hell, Halo 3's sales were so frontloaded that it probably could have been a much worse game than it was and still sell about as much as it did (CoD4 faced stiffer competition).
 
Hang on, how does that compare to AC?! Seems pretty much on a par. Neither has coop, online multiplayer, or a long game. If they're reasons to not buy Uncharted, they're reasons to not buy AC too, surely?

I'll add to my previous post that I think, at the end of the day, the market is just plain fickle and unpredictable! You can't look at a title prior to launch and accurately gauge whether it'll sell 5 million, 1 million, or a few hundred k if you're lucky. There have been top rated, excellent games that haven't sold, and trashy titles that have outsold them. In general, the better the game (review scores), the better the sales, because people aren't particularly keen to buy a known turkey, but no developer can sit down and pencil out a sure-fire 4 million seller. If they could, they would all be doing it!

At it's heart, Uncharted is a cover style shooter. Similar to Gears and Rainbow Six. You can't really give it credit for it's puzzles, as they are quite plain and if anything, a knock against the game. So now you're left with a shooter with a very good cover system. Other games successful with that formula had co op and a well liked MP. Uncharted has neither. Couple that with a 8hr campaign and it makes for the perfect rental.

AC is an action game with platforming elements. It was also clearly marketed better and simply something quite different. Turning the HUD off in AC and going through the towns, the game is simply more impressive visually to the passer by than Uncharted. The animations of the crowd, swinging, jumping, running and bumping through people, etc... are extremely well done and catch a person's eye. Over all, I found AC to about a 7 but I can see the draw it had.
 
Hang on, how does that compare to AC?! Seems pretty much on a par. Neither has coop, online multiplayer, or a long game. If they're reasons to not buy Uncharted, they're reasons to not buy AC too, surely?

Well firstly, AC is long, almost too long, I don't think most people end up finishing it. You can easily sink 20-30 hours into it without reaching the end.

For a game like Uncharted, (8-10 hours, on rails, shooter) things like CO-OP, online multiplayer are almost expected nowadays.

I really don't think it would've helped sales that much, but I can see why lack of those options would hurt a game of this type, while not really being expected/necessary in a game like AC (Free roaming, exploration based gameplay).
 
At it's heart, Uncharted is a cover style shooter. Similar to Gears and Rainbow Six. You can't really give it credit for it's puzzles, as they are quite plain and if anything, a knock against the game.
Well, yes, I see that from a POV that's the case, but do the uyers actually know about this before hand? I'm wondering how much of multi-million sales success comes from informed buyers versus Joe Pundit going down the store and seeing what there is to catch his eye, perhaps based on seeing a 30 second TV ad and hearing a mate say "this is gonna be the most awesomeist game ever!"?

We all consider these games from a (reasonably) educated position, having read reviews and complained about how wrong those reviews are (;)), and I certainly know what I'm buying before paying for it. But I wonder how much that's representative of the majority buyers. Out of the millions of AC buyers, how many knew exactly what they were getting including length and variety of gameplay? Of those who bought Uncharted, how many knew the balance of shooting to platforming and based their purchasing decision on that? Visitng a site like Eurogamer and looking at something like the Most Wanted counts of games, you're seeing only a few hundred votes. That to me suggests visitors don't number the millions, and the majority of salesmanship has to work outside of the gaming press. In that respect, I'm not entirely convinced that the game itself, all its good points and bad points, is the major selling point. But then I haven't looked at the stats for sales, IPs, ratings and so forth. Ostepop says there's a correlation between score and sales, which I think would be an influencing factor, friends recommending a title. You know how it is, whenever a person clueless in a field wants to get something, they ask their friend/family member who reads up on such things for their recommendation, whether its hi-fi's, TVs or whatever. Marketing perhaps needs to work on first establishing a title as hyped-to-the-nines for the web population, who'll then report their expertise to the greater population, and then follow that up with national media advertising adding to that positive affirmation of 'this expert says its a good game' with a 'ooh, this looks cool' and creating an interest to own. I think that has been the case with the really big sellers. If so, there's a notion that mainstream gamers aren't that choosy, and a moderate title could do well. The trick there would be generating build-up 'expert' hype across the internet despite having a lacklustre product. If you have a AAA showing, it's easy to crank up the hypometer and influence buyers.

Maybe.
 
Well firstly, AC is long, almost too long, I don't think most people end up finishing it. You can easily sink 20-30 hours into it without reaching the end.

What? Hardly, unless you're talking of going after all the stupid flags, in which case Uncharted also has collectibles. Even doing all the silly fetch subquests doesn't take that long in AC. 15 hours is pushing it... a good deal less if you do just the subquests necessary to get to your target (all the rest is busywork, really).
 
Eurogamer top 50 of 2007:

9th: Uncharted
13th: Assassin's Creed
29th: Gears of War
38th: Tomb Raider: Anniversary

Metacritic:

Uncharted: 88
Assassin's Creed: 80
(to be fair: Gears got 94)

However, two of my coworkers played AC to death, one of them actually bought a PS3 so he didn't have to wait for the PC version. The only reason one of them is now interested in Uncharted is ... yep, internet buzz.

Ubisoft's marketing worked - however, not just the marketing of course - the game premise is good, there's innovation both in theme and execution, and last but definitely not least, it was made by the guys who did the Prince of Persia series.
 
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Ubisoft's marketing worked - however, not just the marketing of course - the game premise is good, there's innovation both in theme and execution, and last but definitely not least, it was made by the guys who did the Prince of Persia series.


agreed. I recently re-purchased Assassins Creed (only played for a few hours the first time) and am enjoying it more now than the then when I had other games on my mind. The free running, and jumping and climbing in an open sandbox, huge number of NPCs, and the animations and graphical atmosphere in general allow me to enjoy every repetitive moment ;) of this game for hours and hours. :cool:

It was certainly not just marketing hype.

Pro-Tip:
turn off the HUD elements and explore
 
At it's heart, Uncharted is a cover style shooter. Similar to Gears and Rainbow Six. You can't really give it credit for it's puzzles, as they are quite plain and if anything, a knock against the game. So now you're left with a shooter with a very good cover system. Other games successful with that formula had co op and a well liked MP. Uncharted has neither. Couple that with a 8hr campaign and it makes for the perfect rental.

AC is an action game with platforming elements. It was also clearly marketed better and simply something quite different. Turning the HUD off in AC and going through the towns, the game is simply more impressive visually to the passer by than Uncharted. The animations of the crowd, swinging, jumping, running and bumping through people, etc... are extremely well done and catch a person's eye. Over all, I found AC to about a 7 but I can see the draw it had.

That's the thing...AC LOOKS a lot better than it plays - ie. the parkour LOOKS amazing, but plays very simplistically (and lost all its draw for me)...but I wouldn't say AC looks better to the consumer walking past than Uncharted. The issue is - AC was in stores playable/videos, and Uncharted wasn't. A big reason for ND's direction was to make people stop and look - Sony let them down by not getting it into the stores.

And if only Uncharted was marketted like those games you mentioned - as a great cover shooter. I expect the sales would have been bigger. Game length is irrelevant IMO. Consumers don't know the length of a game in the store. Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia etc. All are 10hour games - and that's the way they should be. Any longer and they lose their punch. They are bought if they buy into the concept and to their interpretation of how the game will play.
 
However, two of my coworkers played AC to death, one of them actually bought a PS3 so he didn't have to wait for the PC version. The only reason one of them is now interested in Uncharted is ... yep, internet buzz.

... and product quality. It wouldn't have worked for so long if there are no fundamentals. Uncharted screenshots speak for themselves. The gameplay appeals to shooter fans I guess. I "hated" the cheap and tough pirates initially (yes, good AI but too many of 'em). The girl
old man, and mercs
saved the game for me.
 
I actually suspect that Assassin's Creed 2 may not do as well as 1 if they don't do some damage control before launch. People have actually played it, and from what I can tell popular opinion is about as divided as the reviews. Something like what happened from MGS2 -> MGS3.
 
I actually suspect that Assassin's Creed 2 may not do as well as 1 if they don't do some damage control before launch. People have actually played it, and from what I can tell popular opinion is about as divided as the reviews. Something like what happened from MGS2 -> MGS3.

perhaps but I say that AS was so brilliant in several areas that 2 is poised to be an amazing game, groundbreaking even, if AC2 fixes those shortcomings.

I do not see them making the same mistakes as one now that the incredible hard work of the gorgeous graphics, stellar animation, climbing, free-running and fighting systems are already in place.

I doubt it will be a rehash of one and it won't be that hard to create a new buzz, especially if PoP does as well as expected.
 
Indeed, EA titles tend to sell much more than their review scores should imply.

I think that's largely because EA is very good at defining their target market(s) and designing the game for it, and they recognize that the game press is a very small subset of their audience for most products.
 
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