Was 360's CPU alpha plan of Cell?

Mikage said:
one said:
That tech-on link covers only the tip of the 2nd chapter in the story! ;)
Click to expand...

Yes. full story is paper version... Let's go to a book store ~.
Click to expand...
Hehe, please pass me a copy next time 8)
Anyway I'll put other tidbits from the story in this thread as usual when I can snatch the time, thanks for the info! :)

Oh and here's the 1st chapter of "the Engineers who created Cell" story series in the Nikkei Electronics magazine.
(disclaimer: these are from the e-book version of the Nikkei magazine which is specially available for free on the Nikkei web at https://ne900.nikkeibp.co.jp/CGI/menu.cgi for the 900th memorial of the magazine, so not violating the forum rule)

http://ranobe.sakuratan.com/up/updata/up40568.jpg
http://ranobe.sakuratan.com/up/updata/up40569.jpg
 
Mikage said:
1) The first suggestion of Cell by IBM was PPC core*4.

2) Engineers of Sony and Toshiba paled at this suggestion and demanded
reconsideration, because this chip is to have 4000 pins. (Cell has about
1200 pins).
Click to expand...

So they "only" rejected because of the price?
 
Well, I've no idea what the extra pins on the first revision were for (were they all power or were they actual digital I/O), but assuming a large quantity was useful functional data output, then higher pin count complicates verification testing and some other issues. Of course, one can view that as ultimately being linked to price though.
 
pc999 said:
Mikage said:
1) The first suggestion of Cell by IBM was PPC core*4.

2) Engineers of Sony and Toshiba paled at this suggestion and demanded
reconsideration, because this chip is to have 4000 pins. (Cell has about
1200 pins).
Click to expand...

So they "only" rejected because of the price?
Click to expand...

I'm sure there was more to it than just that. And the price/performance ratio may be a more accurate characterisation of their reasoning here rather than just "price".
 
Was the Xbox 360 CPU the Alpha version of Cell?
Click to expand...

It's more likely the other way round: The Cell was the Alpha version of the Xbox 360 CPU. :D

Think about it logically. The Xbox 360 CPU design was started after the design of the Cell was complete. Microsoft knew, thanks to Sony's bragging, exactly what the Cell would be capable of. The Xbox 360 CPU was designed to be an economical alternative to the Cell with comperable performance and better time-to-market.
 
CELL's patent is 5 years old, and cell similar than emotionengine ...

"The Xbox 360 CPU was designed to be an economical alternative to the Cell with comperable performance and better time-to-market"

you show to me a xenons die-photo :) cell is real...
and possible KK will make 65nm cell with 5 Ghz and 8 spe ..
 
shaderguy said:
Was the Xbox 360 CPU the Alpha version of Cell?
Click to expand...

It's more likely the other way round: The Cell was the Alpha version of the Xbox 360 CPU. :D

Think about it logically. The Xbox 360 CPU design was started after the design of the Cell was complete. Microsoft knew, thanks to Sony's bragging, exactly what the Cell would be capable of. The Xbox 360 CPU was designed to be an economical alternative to the Cell with comperable performance and better time-to-market.
Click to expand...

They probably had built the whole XB360 around that, I think that we will be very suprised with the GPGPU skills from R500.
 
PC-Engine said:
version said:
CELL's patent is 5 years old, and cell similar than emotionengine ...

"The Xbox 360 CPU was designed to be an economical alternative to the Cell with comperable performance and better time-to-market"

you show to me a xenons die-photo :) cell is real...
and possible KK will make 65nm cell with 5 Ghz and 8 spe ..
Click to expand...

http://img236.echo.cx/img236/1655/xbox2powerpchigh7hm.jpg
Click to expand...

I believe that's a pic Gamespot posted that ended up just being a G5 or some such?

Anyway, assuming a Power core in XeCPU is at least as big as a PPE, then 3 cores with 1MB of cache is at least half the size of a 8-SPE Cell chip. Which fits nicely with the claimed performance difference from some quarters ;) That said, Allard keeps claiming they're on the same transistor budget..though I have my doubts.
 
Mikage said:
2) Engineers of Sony and Toshiba paled at this suggestion and demanded
reconsideration, because this chip is to have 4000 pins. (Cell has about
1200 pins).
Click to expand...

WTH? Why should a 4-Core CPU have 4 times the pins? Doesnt sounds real to me.
 
Npl said:
Mikage said:
2) Engineers of Sony and Toshiba paled at this suggestion and demanded
reconsideration, because this chip is to have 4000 pins. (Cell has about
1200 pins).
Click to expand...

WTH? Why should a 4-Core CPU have 4 times the pins? Doesnt sounds real to me.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of info we don't have there, like what Power core they were talking about etc.
 
It's more likely the other way round: The Cell was the Alpha version of the Xbox 360 CPU.

Think about it logically. The Xbox 360 CPU design was started after the design of the Cell was complete. Microsoft knew, thanks to Sony's bragging, exactly what the Cell would be capable of
Click to expand...

Releasing a product to counter another product doesn't make the other product an alpha version of what your releasing :)
 
Just for reference a (G5) PPC970FX@90nm is 62mm2. So three of them with 1MB shared cache should be around the same size as CELL.
 
Although 360's cores aren't actually as big as G5 cores are they? They do have some bits removed I believe.
 
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