Value of Hardware Unboxed benchmarking

[homerdog]

Why is the streaming falling down on smaller caches? What's the assumption for virtualised textures that's wrong, or at least where the worst-case scenario means the standard caching fails? Virtual textures should hit a perfect set of predictable operating parameters.

The amount of memory available for the cache varies based on other things that are going on? Just a guess.

Has anyone tested 8GB cards with framegen on? I love DLSS framegen but I've noticed it needs a decent chunk of VRAM which has caused problems even on my 4070 in some games.

 

[homerdog]

The game crashes when trying use high settings at 1080p with a 4060? Even with framegen turned off.

 

[IQandHDR]

The game crashes when trying use high settings at 1080p with a 4060? Even with framegen turned off.

The game plays fine with that GPU when you adjust the settings to mach reality:

Alex even mentions this in the lastest Digital Foundry video:


Link to the part of the video dealing with this topic:

People need to flip the neural switch to [ON] and not whine about forcing a card to run above recommended settings.
A relevant question is:
Do you really NEED framegeneration in this game?

 

[Flappy Pannus]

A relevant question is:
Do you really NEED framegeneration in this game?

If you want to play at ~120fps without completely destroying your image quality, yes? I mean starting from a stable 60fps is exactly where frame gen shines.

When it's a heavily promoted feature and marketed as an easy way to get this kind of performance, especially for low-end GPU's, (time permitting) It absolutely should be covered when/if it shits the bed due to not enough VRAM.

 

[IQandHDR]

If you want to play at ~120fps without completely destroying your image quality, yes? I mean starting from a stable 60fps is exactly where frame gen shines.

Especially when it's a heavily promoted feature and marketed as an easy way to get this kind of performance, especially for low-end GPU's. It absolutely should be covered when/if it shits the bed due to not enough VRAM.

I need DLSS/FG in Cyberpunk 2077 @ 4K with pattracing or I need to reduce settings that gives a rather significant visual downgrade...and I still cannot hit 120 FPS (Gsync for the save!)
But this game does not seem to have that issues.
For starters, pathracing is not even out on it...and the current jump in settigns does not seem to downgrade the visual a lot.

I do not see FG been directed at the low-end market, but the whole stack...I mean look at this:

That is not targeting low-end market with those settings/FPS

 

[troyan]

The game crashes when trying use high settings at 1080p with a 4060? Even with framegen turned off.

Texture streaming @ high needs 9 GB, settings @ high around 8.5GB.

This game reminds me of TLoU which wasnt optimized for the PC and used bascially the PS5 settings and textures.

 

[homerdog]

The game plays fine with that GPU when you adjust the settings to mach reality:
View attachment 12563
Alex even mentions this in the lastest Digital Foundry video:
View attachment 12564

Link to the part of the video dealing with this topic:

People need to flip the neural switch to [ON] and not whine about forcing a card to run above recommended settings.
A relevant question is:
Do you really NEED framegeneration in this game?

Of course it works if you lower settings until it works lol. And yes I think people would like to be able to use the features that the card was marketed on. And it's not just marketing. DLSS framegen is incredible and obviously it is more useful on slower cards than faster ones. Too bad the 4060/4060Ti lacks the memory capacity to use it.

 

[Dampf]

The RTX2060 gets more than 30 FPS in Indiana Jones in nativ 1080p: https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Indi...t-Grafikkarten-Prozessor-Benchmark-1460918/2/

Cant play this game with a Radeon 5700(XT)...

Also - you can actually play this one on a 2060 6GB at 30 fps.

Aged like milk. As soon as you reach the vatican city it doesn't run any more.

PabloEscapebar (@pabloescapebar.bsky.social)

I tried it in 2060 6gb. It does not run after Vatican.

app.bsky.cz

Even Series S runs the game better than those cards. What a shame.

 

[IQandHDR]

Of course it works if you lower settings until it works lol. And yes I think people would like to be able to use the features that the card was marketed on. And it's not just marketing. DLSS framegen is incredible and obviously it is more useful on slower cards than faster ones. Too bad the 4060/4060Ti lacks the memory capacity to use it.

It a lowend SKU...adjust settings and expectations accordingly.
Thinking it will do high settings or 120 FPS in new titles is misguided at best

 

[homerdog]

It a lowend SKU...adjust settings and expectations accordingly.
Thinking it will do high settings or 120 FPS in new titles is misguided at best

Being unable to use framegen is a critical failure. This was supposed to be the thing that set it apart, and it really is a killer feature. Keep in mind this applies to the $400 4060Ti. We can call it low end but that's actually more than most people are comfortable spending on a GPU. Most people are in the <$350 range. It's a damn shame.

 

[IQandHDR]

Being unable to use framegen is a critical failure. This was supposed to be the thing that set it apart, and it really is a killer feature. Keep in mind this applies to the $400 4060Ti. We can call it low end but that's actually more than most people are comfortable spending on a GPU. Most people are in the <$350 range. It's a damn shame.

It is low-end SKU.
Only the 4050 is below it.
Above it are:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 Laptop GPU
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090

It is the bottom of the barrel...you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that this card needs to turn down settings and on top use use a cheap price as justification that it should do everything?

You lost me.

Again:
1. Try turning DOWN settings.
2. Adjust expectations to reality.



Edit:
I mean, look at the 4070 12 GB settings....LOW, 1080P, 60 FPS...WITH FG!!!

 

[homerdog]

I mean, look at the 4070 12 GB settings....LOW, 1080P, 60 FPS...WITH FG!!!

I think that's for the full path tracing mode which isn't out yet. Really looking forward to that. The games I've seen so far with full Path Tracing look amazing.

But that's not super relevant here. Even the 16GB 4060Ti won't go very far in full path tracing.

 

[IQandHDR]

I think that's for the full path tracing mode which isn't out yet. Really looking forward to that. The games I've seen so far with full Path Tracing look amazing.

But that's not super relevant here. Even the 16GB 4060Ti won't go very far in full path tracing.

No because that SKU, just like the 4060 are not high-end and you need to adjust settings accordingly.
It been like that forever on PC.
But now it seems to trigger people in 2024.
(Even when the developer "warned" people in the requirements)

 

[trinibwoy]

People are conflating two issues though to be fair they’re related. Should entry level cards be “expected” to run high and extreme settings. Clearly the answer is no contrary to popular belief. The other issue is whether entry level cards should cost $400. That’s the real problem.

 

[IQandHDR]

People are conflating two issues though to be fair they’re related. Should entry level cards be “expected” to run high and extreme settings. Clearly the answer is no contrary to popular belief. The other issue is whether entry level cards should cost $400. That’s the real problem.

Well, it a good is to expensive, the market will sort it out.
But I keep reading that people want a SKU $200 that can run every thing on high.

The GTX 460 launched in 2010 for $199
Purely inflation would make that $288 today.
The RTX 4060 launched at $299 in 2023 (11$ over the inflation value).
Add the broken cost scaling of process nodes since 28nm and the only thing confusing me are peoples expectations.
(And yes there used to be lower SKU's in the 460 days, but those have been eaten up by APU's, you cannot have your cake and eat it too)

 

[trinibwoy]

Well, it a good is to expensive, the market will sort it out.

I agree. Clearly all of the whining on the internet isn’t being reflected in actual sales of 8GB cards. Let’s see how competition changes that dynamic now that we have 12GB cards for $250.

The GTX 460 launched in 2010 for $199
Purely inflation would make that $288 today.
The RTX 4060 launched at $299 in 2023 (11$ over the inflation value).
Add the broken cost scaling of process nodes since 28nm and the only thing confusing me are peoples expectations.
(And yes there used to be lower SKU's in the 460 days, but those have been eaten up by APU's, you cannot have your cake and eat it too)

I think the 4060 Ti broke people’s brains and understandably so. Asking minimum $500 for more than 8GB is kinda crazy. And that $500 doesn’t even get you a card that’s actually faster than the $400 card. If the 4060 Ti launched at $400 with 12 or 16GB people wouldn’t be as upset.

I expect the 5060 will still be 8GB at <= $300 with a 12GB 5060 Ti based on cut down GB204 under $400. Mostly thanks to competition from Intel and AMD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Please do not ever use arbitrary 'low end' and 'high end' brackets. These are open, subjective terms that can encompass features, performance, price, and be relative across a specific generation or different generations. Criticism of a game's performance on a card needs to highlight the specific comparison point - "this runs poorly...on a contemporary $400 card;...on a historical, inflation adjusted $400 card;...considering this card is the mode average of players;...relative to the majority of GPUs of this and the prior generation;"...etc.

All conversations referencing low end and high end collapse into debates on definitions of these terms so must be avoided. Please take an extra moment to be clear on your point without making assumptions about how other people (should) interpret a word.

 

[homerdog]

No because that SKU, just like the 4060 are not high-end and you need to adjust settings accordingly.
It been like that forever on PC.
But now it seems to trigger people in 2024.
(Even when the developer "warned" people in the requirements)

For as far back as I can remember, $300+ (inflation adjusted) cards have always come with plenty of VRAM to play contemporary games with no issues.

What is new is the 4060/4060Ti has a lot less memory than the 3060. And it seems the 5060 will also have a lot less memory than the 3060. This is not something that has ever happened, and it's happening in a time when it absolutely does matter. The cards are VRAM limited.

 

[IQandHDR]

Please do not ever use arbitrary 'low end' and 'high end' brackets. These are open, subjective terms that can encompass features, performance, price, and be relative across a specific generation or different generations. Criticism of a game's performance on a card needs to highlight the specific comparison point - "this runs poorly...on a contemporary $400 card;...on a historical, inflation adjusted $400 card;...considering this card is the mode average of players;...relative to the majority of GPUs of this and the prior generation;"...etc.

All conversations reference low end and high end collapse into debates on definitions of these terms so must be avoided. Please take an extra moment to be clear on your point without making assumptions about how other people (should) interpret a word.

How do I classify cards then?

RTX 4060             8GB     $299
RTX 4060 Ti         8GB     $399
RTX 4060 Ti         16GB     $499
RTX 4070             12GB     $599
RTX 4070             12GB     $599
RTX 4070 SUPER         12GB     $599
RTX 4070 Ti         12GB     $799
RTX 4070 Ti SUPER     16GB     $799
RTX 4080             12GB     $799
RTX 4080             12GB     $899
RTX 4080 SUPER         16GB     $999
RTX 4090             24GB     $1599

I mean, even AMD say they are not going flagships this generation?
(Is "flagship" okay to call the RTX 4090 then? Becasue if the vendors use those words, it hard to not use them?)
Low, mid and high-end har been used for ages to define SKU's...now that is not allowed?
Would lowest-end (when talking about the 4060) be okay?
(The verbal gymnastics in order to have a normal conversation seems excessive?)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How do I classify cards then?

Start by asking the question, "why do you need to?"

What is it about this game's scaling and the 4060 that matters? Replace 'low end' with the qualifiers that you are referring to.