Tsunami

Guden Oden said:
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
the energy input and thus the water displacement is just several orders of magnitude bigger.

Dude. This quake permanently moved whole chains of islands upwards of 20 meters. I seriously DOUBT your landslide would release anywhere close the equivalent energy. A guy called Ken Hudnut at the US institute of cartography speculates the quake was probably massive enough to have caused a shudder in the earth's axis of rotation and may have caused the northern tip of Sumatra to turn some 36 meters towards the west.
.

"Dude", you're quite simply wrong. As I said, landslides are *known* to create larger waves. People have *seen* it happen. People have examined the evidence of a slide on one side of an ocean and the massive damage and high water marks on the other side of the ocean. The waves are bigger.

There is a limit to the amount of movement you can get into the earth's crust. There is no limit to the amount of rock you can throw into the sea, and there is the added displacement of massive amounts of air pushing behind it. You're talking about moving a chain of islands 20 metres, I'm talking about throwing the whole island into the sea, which is what is going to happen at La Palma where 500 thousand million tonnes of rock are expected to hit the ocean along with air displacement behind it. It makes Lituya Bay look tiny. You may "doubt" this in the same way that some people doubt the earth is round, but it's a scientific fact.

Here's a jumping off point if you want to actually do a bit of reading on the facts rather that just what you "doubt" happens. I've given you the facts, if you want to keep denying them and being wrong, that's up to you.
 
USGS: Warnings could have saved thousands

LOS ANGELES--U.S. officials who detected a massive earthquake off Asia's coast on Saturday tried frantically to warn the deadly wall of water was coming, the head of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said Sunday.

But there was no official alert system in the region because such catastrophes only happen there about once every 700 years, said Charles McCreery, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's center in Honolulu.

"We tried to do what we could," McCreery said. "We don't have contacts in our address book for anybody in that part of the world."

Within moments of detecting the quake, McCreery and his staff were on the phone to Australia, then to U.S. Naval officials, various U.S. embassies and finally the U.S. State Department.

They were unable to reach the thousands in the countries most severely affected--including India, Thailand and Sri Lanka--because none had a tsunami warning mechanism or tidal gauges to alert people, he said.

The 8.9-magnitude underwater quake--one of the most powerful in history--off the Indonesian island of Sumatra devastated southern Asia and triggered waves of up to 30 feet high, killing more than 11,300 people.

"We actually issued a bulletin about the quake but it only went to the countries in the Pacific...that subscribe...and that would include Australia and Indonesia," McCreery said.

Because of the lack of monitoring mechanisms, U.S. officials had no access to government or scientific information in the areas affected by the latest tsunamis and were relying on more general information.

A warning center such as those used around the Pacific could have saved thousands of lives, Waverly Person of the U.S. Geological Survey's National Earthquake Information Center, told Reuters.

"Most of those people could have been saved if they had had a tsunami warning system in place or tide gauges," he said.

"And I think this will be a lesson to them," he said, referring to the governments of the devastated countries.

Person also said that because large tsunamis, or seismic sea waves, are extremely rare in the Indian Ocean, people were never taught to flee inland after they felt the tremors of an earthquake.

Tsunami warning systems and tide gauges exist around the Pacific Ocean, for the Pacific Rim as well as South America. The United States has such warning centers in Hawaii and Alaska operated by the U.S. Geological Survey and NOAA. But none of these monitors the Indian Ocean region, McCreery said.

It takes a substantial investment and long-term commitment to set up a 24-hour communications infrastructure, operational capabilities and specialized training, he added, declining to estimate the cost.

In addition, U.S. seismologists said it was unlikely the Indian Ocean region would be hit any time soon by a similarly devastating tsunami because it takes an enormously strong earthquake to generate one.

But Person said governments should instruct people living along the coast to move after detecting a quake. Since a tsunami is generated at the source of an underwater earthquake, there is usually time--from 20 minutes to two hours--to get people away as it builds in the ocean.

A major tsunami, a Japanese word meaning "harbor wave," occurs in the Pacific Ocean about once a decade. It is generated by vertical movement during an earthquake and sometimes incorrectly referred to as a tidal wave, according to the Web site of the U.S. National Geophysical Data Center.

U.S. officials are now trying to help officials in the region set up some sort of informal warning system and feeling badly that more couldn't have been done, McCreery said.

"It took an hour and a half for the wave to get from the earthquake to Sri Lanka and an hour for it to get...to the west coast of Thailand and Malaysia," he said. "You can walk inland for 15 minutes to get to a safe area."

News Source: News.com

------------------------

Saw this yesterday.
 
i do find it wierd to say they couldnt contact anyone... i suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing *and* people in the local area were asleep / just getting up.. but even if a broadcast had got the information out to western europe then people could have at least notified friends who are out there..
christ, contact the bbc/sky-fox-news/cnn for gods sake.

my step-aunt was on a cruise when the wave hit,, she's okay , but my friends have yet to hear about an ex-colleague who we believe was in indonesia ..

mind you, an itn producer who was swimming says the people on the beach screamed at her and her new husband to get inland,, which they did before the main waves hit..... so news must have reached some people . .
 
@Bouncing Bro's: Here's someone saying the impending La Palma landslide won't be so bad.

Canary Islands landslides and mega-tsunamis: should we really be frightened?

What is the reality behind stories of mega-tsunamis wiping out the American east coast and southern England? Very little, according to Dr Russell Wynn and Dr Doug Masson from Southampton Oceanography Centre, who have been studying Canary Islands landslides for many years. Their research has shown that stories of a devastating 'mega-tsunami' some 300 feet high and travelling at 500 mph are greatly exaggerated, and that reports suggesting tens of millions of people could be killed have little basis in reality.

Dr Russell Wynn said, "The Canary Islands are volcanic islands that collapse at regular intervals in geological time. However, it is important to remember that in the last 200,000 years there have only been two major landslides on the flanks of the Canary Islands. At SOC we have studied previous Canary Islands landslides to understand how they move, and have found good evidence to show that the landslides actually break up and fall into the sea in several stages."

"By analogy, if you drop a brick into a bath you get a big splash, but if you break that brick up into several pieces and drop them in one by one, you get several small splashes. Therefore a multi-stage failure would certainly not generate tsunamis capable of damaging the coastlines of southern England or the American east coast, although they may have an impact on nearby Canary Islands."

Dr Wynn added, "The mega-tsunami scenario currently being aired in the media is a hypothetical 'worst case', and is largely based upon speculative computer models of landslide motion and tsunami generation. In contrast, our work involves study of actual landslide deposits."

In October 2004 Dr Wynn and Dr Masson will lead a new UK research cruise to the deep ocean offshore of the Canary Islands. The aim is to look in more detail at the deposits of previous Canary Islands landslides in an attempt to better understand how they move, and whether they are capable of generating tsunamis. Dr Wynn concludes, "Only by assembling all the facts and working together can we as scientists provide the public with the best information on these spectacular, but rather infrequent, natural hazards."

Dr Russell Wynn and Dr Doug Masson's research has been funded by the Natural Environment Research Council and the European Union.

Source
 
Reverend, if you're reading this I hope your MY lot are ok. We've heard from KL and nobody we know was in Penang or Langkawi at the time, thankfully.

A very sad event indeed. There are still a few inhabited islands in the Indian Ocean that have not made contact since the tsunami hit. :(
 
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
"Dude", you're quite simply wrong.

Yeah, EXCEPT you clearly don't "get" what I'm saying. You talk about height of waves. I talk about energy released. It's NOT the same thing, ya maroon!

One more time now, mmkay? "I seriously DOUBT your landslide would release anywhere close the equivalent energy." DO YOU GET IT THIS TIME?

So the wave height isn't as big, SO WHAT. It's not the height of the wave that signifies its power. Even your hypothetical mega-tsunami from a collapsing canary island isn't going to storm across the entire atlantic at a height of 50+ meters and a speed of 800kph; turbulence in the water would make the wave dissipate on its own within a matter of moments!

You'd realize this yourself if you wasn't so blindly locked into attack mode.

I'm getting sort of tired of having you cyberstalking me all over the place and bitching at me because you can't understand what the hell I'm talking about. Why not try reading what I type and then comprehending it before you hit that reply button, or do what I already told you before, ie ignore my posts. So shoo on you, itty-bitty fly!
 
RussSchultz said:
This shows a more wave like wave, but still, it wasn't a tower of water that destroyed everything in its wake. The initial force would have hurt/killed people on the beach, but I think the real damage was the relentless rising water and debris coming with it.
The estimative is a 5 to 10m waves at 48km/h at the beachs. :( (see link above)

I would like to know what happened to the ships in the middle of the ocean.
 
pascal said:
The estimative is a 5 to 10m waves at 48km/h at the beachs. :( (see link above)
Yes, though the pictures don't show a 5-10m wave rushing too far inland.
I would like to know what happened to the ships in the middle of the ocean.
Not much. There isn't a wall of water that travels outward from the epicenter. The actual wave front only is evidenced when it reaches land (because the floor of the ocean rises and "squeezes" the wave to the top.).
 
MuFu said:
Reverend, if you're reading this I hope your MY lot are ok. We've heard from KL and nobody we know was in Penang or Langkawi at the time, thankfully.

A very sad event indeed. There are still a few inhabited islands in the Indian Ocean that have not made contact since the tsunami hit. :(
Believe it or not, me and the family had planned to go to Penang that weekend. We decided against it a few days before the weekend because I complained that I wasn't in the mood for a 4-hour drive up north. We ended up somewhere much closer to KL. If we had gone to Penang, we would probably be at the beach around the time the waves came coz my son loves beaches... who knows what coulda happened. I did have a 7-year old nephew who was in Penang then and we were all frantically trying to contact his uncle (nephew went there to be with his uncle)... he wasn't at the beach (he was enjoying lunch downtown).

This is a horrible, horrible tragedy... I look at pictures of piles of bodies and I go numb.
 
This is indeed terrible. My heart goes out to the family members and friends of those unfortunate who died or got injured. I don;t think words can describe tragedies like these. Thousands have died....millions are homeless...without shelter, food and other basic necessities. There are areas which are still to be accessed. I yesterday saw a remote sensing image showing an island (in A&N Islands) before Tsunami and after Tsunami, it virtually dissappeared. Tragedies like these make us realise that there are still things out there which Mankind and science has to understand.
 
Back
Top