The Official, Long Awaited, TV Shows Thread

since he was
trying to kill her by removing the Trial by Combat option
The trial by combat removal was obviously the works of the high sparrow's manipulations. Tommen wouldn't have had the spine for doing something like that on his own. Anyhow, his suicide just goes to show how right Tyvin was when he declared Cersei not as smart as she thinks she is.

Her schemes, post-Tyvin (because him being alive probably kept her in check), turn out to be massive blunders on an epic scale, with repercussions she simply can't foresee because she's so blinded by her own petty hate. She smugly and gleefully smiles to herself, having watched the cathedral collapse in massive explosions and flames (and thousands of people undoubtedly perishing in the process), and in the very next scene her son jumps out a window because he just watched his wife being crushed and burned to death. Epic fucking fail.
 
The trial by combat removal was obviously the works of the high sparrow's manipulations. Tommen wouldn't have had the spine for doing something like that on his own. Anyhow, his suicide just goes to show how right Tyvin was when he declared Cersei not as smart as she thinks she is.

Her schemes, post-Tyvin (because him being alive probably kept her in check), turn out to be massive blunders on an epic scale, with repercussions she simply can't foresee because she's so blinded by her own petty hate. She smugly and gleefully smiles to herself, having watched the cathedral collapse in massive explosions and flames (and thousands of people undoubtedly perishing in the process), and in the very next scene her son jumps out a window because he just watched his wife being crushed and burned to death. Epic fucking fail.
Very much disagree

She had already lost control over Tommen thanks to the High Sparrow so her son jumping out the window was absolutely the icing on the cake as she just gained the Iron Throne in one epic maneuver! She cares about power far more than her son that turned on her.
 
GoT discussion

Ned's age is a complicated situation because of the realism about medieval societies in the books. TLDR: every single character is much younger there.
Ned was perhaps 18 by the time he married Catelyn, so he's 34-35 at the time of his beheading. His eldest son, Robb, was about 15 when he had to start a war; Jon is about the same age, Sansa is about 13-14, Arya 10 or so, and Bran is perhaps 8. Dany is about 14 when she's sold off and raped by Drogo. Ser Jorah is 50+, which really counts as old and he's bald too.
I don't recall the age of the other characters, but the generational aspect is sort of there, similar to Harry Potter; so Robert, Cersei, Jaime etc. are about Ned's age, and Tywin is ~50 too.

Obviously, a lot of these ages would be inappropriate even for a show like GoT - child girls getting forced into marriages is a definite no go. But making the girls older also meant aging the boys and the parents too; and of course the child actors were growing up through the seasons, but I don't mind that. And in the case of Ned, casting Sean Bean makes him look even older (although Bean is still in quite good shape for his age).

Tommen, I think, was quite likely the best of the three Lannister kids, with a pure heart, but his naivety has pretty much determined his fate. It was a sad and still quite unexpected twist IMHO. And I think it devastated Cersei, stripping her of the last remaining pieces of humanity.


The apparent predictability of the show is a temporary thing though. Both Martin and the showrunners are authors interested in good drama, and I'd never expect them to settle for a proper happy ending.
Bringing the plot threads together again required the settling of the 'smaller' conflicts, in order to move the pieces on the board into position for the final act.
Edit: it was also sort of logical to chose which characters should be killed of. The characters with no hope for redemption were the obvious ones, as they had very little interesting stories left in them. This also happened to coincide with most of the 'good' ones; but more on this later.

It is also quite clear that Cersei is not the main villain, but merely one of the final obstacles to remove from the picture before the finale can begin - which also has to include the redemption of Jaime. I'd also say that Littlefinger is not the main villain either, even though he is the person who actually set the current events in motion, by organizing the poisoning of Jon Aryn through Lisa. Lastly, even the Night King is not a villain, possibly not even a character - but more like a force of nature (the showrunners compared him to Death). I do expect most of these characters to be killed off early next season though; unless some of them are better served with the bitterness of living to see the resolution of the story (like, banishing Petyr back to the Fingers).

But the fun part is that the remaining 'good' characters are definitely not going to end up in an alliance. A lot of them are actually being set up with opposing motivations and interests for a start.
More importantly, the main underlying conflict of the story is IMHO the opposition of magic and normality. It has been strongly hinted that the abnormal nature of seasons is directly tied to the White Walkers; and their re-emergence is tied to the return of magic, kinda personified in Dany's dragons. So, my expectation is that the only way to defeat the Walkers is to completely banish any and all kinds of magic from the world - and the price for that is obvious. In fact, if you think a bit about it, the dragons are just as bad as the Night King, they create a balance of power based on terror and destruction. Then there is this Lord of Light, and as Davos has said, if this entity requires child sacrifices, then it has to be evil; and I have a strong suspicion that R'hllor was actually the thing that the sorcerer castrated Varys for (which would also neatly explain how that Red Priestess was able to guess so much about what happened). One also has to wonder if Jon can live without the presence of magic... and let's not forget about the magic of the Children and Bran either.

So, all these elements suggest to me that the endgame is going to be full of twists and tragic moments. It might not be that unexpected though, based on these subtle hints ;) but it'd definitely fit the style of Martin and the spirit of the show and the books.
 
Last edited:
Wow, Laa-Yosh, thanks for that. Have you gathered all this by yourself, by reading the books or just watching the series? Having read the first book (or in the process of...), I am aware that the book is quite a bit more detailed in what of the plot it uncovers.

I.e.
There is a lot of detail in the conversions between Ned and King Robert in the first season, when they visit the grave of his sister Lyanna and how she was abducted. At the time, I didn't have the overall picture to understand the significance of that dialog, it only started to become clear, 5 seasons later (to me anyway) which I am now watching 2 years later.

At the same time, there are definitely things (the finer details) that I have missed while watching the seasons - things that either only make sense later, but are important finer details to acts in earlier episodes. Anyway, while we all wait for the next season, I'll probably start by rewatching all the previous episodes. Or simply continue reading the book(s).
 
Well, the conclusions are mine, but it's all based on the books, the show, and some fan speculations / reviews. There are other theories out there, of course; for example I've read a post somewhere about the parallels between GoT and Ragnarok.

As for the hints and details, this is pretty interesting when you compare the show and the books.

Martin just basically overwhelms the reader with information - there are like a thousand named characters - which makes it very hard for an individual to filter out the important hints and make the proper connections.
But the internet and its hive mind has changed everything. Many of the revelations in this season (and a few previous ones) have been properly guessed well in advance after people started to think together.
This has lead to both Martin and the showrunners getting very careful about such hints, in order to maintain the element of surprise.

The best example is Jon's true parentage. You may remember that in book 1, Ned has nightmares about the Tower of Joy and what has happened there, which was enough on its own for the readers to guess the secret.
In turn, the showrunners (who also guessed right ;) ) decided to remove the dream sequence and make it Bran's visions in season 6, in order to protect the truth. The basics of the story were revealed, like in the conversations between Ned and Robert and Cersei; but the most important clues were held back intentionally.

I believe there still are a few bits of information in the books which may become pretty important, but are still missing from the show. Some of that is part of what my speculation is based on ;)
 
haha this is great for GoT fans and recent events

i-pb7XHRw-2100x20000.jpg
 
Tonight's episode of Preacher started off with an epic fight scene. I can't believe how high the body count could be with just 5 characters. Totally Epic!
 
@Sigfried, Isn't some of it rather inevitable now that the entire story is slowly unfolding and the puzzle pieces (that have been built up over 6 seasons) are slowly falling into place? It's a somewhat natural progression, especially given the scope of all the different characters and their dynasties and their history.

Also, I was under the impression that Martin is still very much involved, despite the series having caught up the books?

One way or another; I started reading the books (still the first one) a while ago and I loved how even the dialogs were identical between series and book. I haven't progressed that far yet (end of the first book), but I understand that there are certain things that were different between both, even way back in Season 2 / book 2. Even if the story line might be taking different roads, I kinda look forward to enjoy two alternate story lines when I finally get to spend more time reading the book. For now, I'm just enjoying the unfolding of the series.

PS: Teleportation. Might you be referring to Lord Varys? :D

PPS: I just watched and completed Breaking Bad recently. Pretty much watched all 5 seasons within 2 weeks. Wow, what a ride. I think it's easily made it to my favorite series of all time. Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul, what a performance. Heck, all of the characters. Just utter brilliant in how it all unfolded and the acting performance of every single characters. Vince Gilligan = genius.

By convenience I'm referring to things like
John's men being saved at the very last minute. Or Ramsey forgetting all about his considerable close combat weapon skills (remember the scene where he dual-wielded a large group of Ironborn soldiers to death while not even wearing a shirt?). As for teleportation: Varys is the most obvious offender, but everyone else seems to work under significantly varying gravitational influences as well. The mother of dragons managed to pimp out an entire armada of ships with fancy Dragon adornements in the same time Bran had a little chat with uncle Benji, and Arya suddenly popped up at the opposite end of the world and slit Walter's throat. Cleaning up all the loose ends within a season's worth of eposides is gonna be a tough job for the writers, and right now they really seem to be in a rush to the finish line. Heck, the threat of the white walkers still hasn't been properly established at this point.
 
By convenience I'm referring to things like
John's men being saved at the very last minute. Or Ramsey forgetting all about his considerable close combat weapon skills (remember the scene where he dual-wielded a large group of Ironborn soldiers to death while not even wearing a shirt?). As for teleportation: Varys is the most obvious offender, but everyone else seems to work under significantly varying gravitational influences as well. The mother of dragons managed to pimp out an entire armada of ships with fancy Dragon adornements in the same time Bran had a little chat with uncle Benji, and Arya suddenly popped up at the opposite end of the world and slit Walter's throat. Cleaning up all the loose ends within a season's worth of eposides is gonna be a tough job for the writers, and right now they really seem to be in a rush to the finish line. Heck, the threat of the white walkers still hasn't been properly established at this point.

Very good point about Ramsey. I thought the same and was a bit disappointed, as I thought the fight would be quite epic, especially after Jon would have been quite fatigued compared to Ramsey just sitting there and watching. But I shrugged it off, as some epic battle probably would have just seemed to Hollywood like I guess. Also right on the rest too. I guess I overlooked it, also because I think in past seasons that there used to be some time laps of sorts that wasn't quite explained but assumed to take place. All good points though.
 
Some of the convienences can be accounted for by assuming not all stories told are occuring at the same time. The series has picked up since they no longer use fillers to mark the passing of noneventful times.

The Arya story with the No One God wrapped up much earlier than when they showed it to the viewers. That allows for significant time spent on her travel.

The same with Varys and the new Dorne allies and then the HighBorn allies, and he was picked up as the iron born an the unsullied fleet reached Dorne. We dont know exactly how much time has passed since the Big Boom Wild Fire event and when Danni's fleet has reached Dorne.

The same with the boy reaching the Library to train to be a maester. In roughly the time it took him to get there, Jon has died, been reborn, been reunited with Sansa, marched on Winterfell, saved by Knights of the Vale, defeated Ramsey Bolton, retaken Winterfell, then finally been declared King of the North. The last event might have been post Library arrival, but only by a day depending on how fast the white ravens fly.
 
All well and good, but also not really much of an excuse. As the show never really operated like this before, the inconsistent timeline feels more than a little odd.
 
I started watching Preacher last night. What the actual fuck? Completely shocked. I'd seen the trailer with the kid asking a preacher to help him with his father, so I start watching and... WTF! I love it!
 
All well and good, but also not really much of an excuse. As the show never really operated like this before, the inconsistent timeline feels more than a little odd.

In the books many of the events happen in parallel, and the author instead of going back and forth between characters and events, intercalating the elements, just devotes some books to on set of events and others to the rest.

The series has suffered from this because many things going in are out of order, but we suppose that they happen concurrently.

Moreover, The producers have put all the pieces in order to finish the game, and had to wrap things up.

Not perfect, but functional
 
There are enough clues that time has passed if you care to look for them. ;) There don't seem to be any real inconsistencies which for me just means that I assume the right amount of time has passed uneventfully for those characters we didn't follow up close. ;) But yeah the main problem is probably that we have been with many characters while they travel.
 
Back
Top