The LAST R600 Rumours & Speculation Thread

[Rangers]

1.17% for the x1950 (seems like they bunched them all together) vs. 2.55% 7950 the 7950's were released after the x1950, the x1950 pro was released in november, the 7950 was in september, a more expensive card selling more.

November is later than September.

Also, steam survey is not at all scientific..it's voluntary.

 

[Shtal]

Does anybody here ever thought what price range will R600 be. "Will it be cheaper then G80 ?"

Like maybe MSRP $549.99 for Top End R600 "Extreme Edition Version" OR 512bit external memory controller will race price significantly up....

 

[Acert93]

It really does make me wonder sometimes when a 7900GS out sells the X1950 Pro. The X1950 Pro being faster in nearly every case, has more features, and better image quality and coming in at around $10 of each other. Add to the fact that the 7900GS really does not run cooler or use less power than the X1950 Pro and I generally just go with "Nvidia really does have kick ass marketing".

I cannot count the number of games that I have that flash "Nvidia" on the loading screen. I cannot think of any that do such for ATI. That alone is valuable mindshare. If the perceived makers of games keep advertising Nvidia as the best platform it will flourish. Very few people lurk forums and tech sites. And even if they did there is enough missinformation and bias within the industry to substantiate a bias toward either NV or ATI.

 

[Skrying]

I cannot count the number of games that I have that flash "Nvidia" on the loading screen. I cannot think of any that do such for ATI. That alone is valuable mindshare. If the perceived makers of games keep advertising Nvidia as the best platform it will flourish. Very few people lurk forums and tech sites. And even if they did there is enough missinformation and bias within the industry to substantiate a bias toward either NV or ATI.

Exactly. I give Nvidia extreme credit for their marketing, it is far and away better than anything I've ever seen from ATi.

 

[nutball]

Also, steam survey is not at all scientific..it's voluntary.

Are you suggesting that there's some mysterious selection effect which is prompting ATI owners to withhold their system details from the Steam survey, whereas NVIDIA owners enthusiastically sign up for it?

 

[turtle]

1. I really doubt its going to suck as some real work was put into it and we have no reason to think otherwise
2. The driver isnt late. Its common sense, there isnt one benchmark or game out that can currently support DX10 so they're going to work on the driver as long as they have time too. Whats the point with rushing it to release when nothing supports it? The OS isnt even out in retail shops yet.
3. Despite the FXs downfall and the recollection of that part that loves to come back to life everytime a new architecture is on the verge of being released by either ATi or nVidia we should remember that its becoming more myth then anything. The biggest problem with the FX series was how damn late it was which let the 9x00 series cards have basically free reign over the entire market. It wasnt the lackluster performance so much as it was the wicked long delay that caused its failure. Even if it was a good performing DX9 part it still would of flopped because it was over a half a year late. The NV40 can much be criticized in the same way the FX series was architecturally. Terrible drop in AF quality from previous generation architectures, very bad performance loss with HQ IQ settings, its key feature over the R420 was infact SM3.0s features and speed increase which it totally failed at, it cannot run HDR without some serious setting (normally resolution amongst other things) reduction, nor can it do HDR+AA which have basically become mandatory for a DX9.0C compliant card in the consumers mind. But it launched without a delay and sold well thanks to PR and very acceptable DX9 SM2.0 performance. Was that a failure? No.

Launch timing and being the first to market is extremely important. Namely because you're the undisputed champion and the only choice so of course a large portion of people are going to buy your products. X1800XT, superior then 7800GTX? Absolutly. Highest marketshare? 7800GTX sales crushed it. This is where ATI has really started to drop the ball for some reason with the R520 and now R600 and personally its pissing me off because i'm in the market for a new card and dont enjoy waiting 6 additional months for 15% performance gain. Nor do i enjoy the thought of buying a badly delayed product only to watch its price plummit by hundreds after a refresh that trumps its performance is blitzed out by either ATi or nVdia a short time later. Last serious problem is volume. Even if its 10-15% faster the cards are going to be at their introductory prices while the competition whos been manufacturing their parts for the last 6 months is going to have parts at lower and inevitably far more acceptable prices. So i've waited 6 months for a graphics card that costed me $150 more then the competitions part, gave me 10% more performance, then i get to watch its lead at the top of the pack fall to a new card announced two weeks later. Whats that taste in my mouth? Oh i know, its bitterness toward ATi. If they keep this up they may as well just leave the high end market completely and concentrate on mainstream because inevitably they're just going to keep on tarnishing their good name on the sales that actually do matter being integrated graphic sales and mainsteam parts in the $100-$300 range.

In short i guess what i'm saying is the only part that could be an FX nightmare all over again is always going to be the part thats last to the table. The G80 is not it.

I know the the R600, like the R520 before it, is problably suffering physical problems, either with yields at desired speeds or there is a problem with the chip itself, so it doesnt sound correct for me to blame ATi for 'making me wait', but you know what; if you cant fight in the ring then you sit the hell out.

I said VISTA driver, not DX10 driver...You know, that operating system that ATi/Nvidia both have drivers (at least beta) except for the 8800...and I never said I agreed with it. I agree with Jawed in reserving judgment on until we see something actually supporting DX10. I'm just saying it's possible. Ever since the get-go people have assumed G80 was built majorally for DX9, with DX10 support, with R600 being built with the intention of shipping around the time of DX10 to show it's true colors. I'm not saying this is correct, because obviously we don't know, but it is a possibility.

 

[Ailuros]

I said VISTA driver, not DX10 driver...You know, that operating system that ATi/Nvidia both have drivers (at least beta) except for the 8800...and I never said I agreed with it. I agree with Jawed in reserving judgment on until we see something actually supporting DX10. I'm just saying it's possible. Ever since the get-go people have assumed G80 was built majorally for DX9, with DX10 support, with R600 being built with the intention of shipping around the time of DX10 to show it's true colors. I'm not saying this is correct, because obviously we don't know, but it is a possibility.

It's bleedingly obvious that any assumption that G80 was built mostly for D3D9.0 is off base.

 

[Rangers]

Are you suggesting that there's some mysterious selection effect which is prompting ATI owners to withhold their system details from the Steam survey, whereas NVIDIA owners enthusiastically sign up for it?

Are you suggesting a opt-in survey is scientific?

 

[nutball]

Are you suggesting a opt-in survey is scientific?

No, but then neither are most opinion polls (which are also opt-in, but which also give the respondent the opportunity to lie when providing an answer, which this survey does not).

 

[Geeforcer]

Are you suggesting a opt-in survey is scientific?

Are yous suggesting it's not representetive? If so, how?

 

[Apple740]

I give Nvidia extreme credit for their marketing, it is far and away better than anything I've ever seen from ATi.

Even if Nvidia would sell bags of crap, and Ati bags of gold for the same price, we would see a larger bags of crap than bags of gold number in the Steam survey.

The total lack of marketing must be some kind of Canadian thing, as if they shame themselves for being it. Could it be
the yearly massive baby seal killing or something?

 

[Razor1]

November is later than September.

Also, steam survey is not at all scientific..it's voluntary.

Opps sorry well doesn't matter 1 month double the sales over both the x1950xtx and the pro, thats still a bit difference.

The steam survey is pretty much as impartial as you can get, do you want to part of the survay or not? YES or NO, is there is anything else that we missed? Its a target audiance of gamers, and the numbers speak for themselves, if you look at the last quarter results from both companies, it shows.

 

[Razor1]

so it doesnt sound correct for me to blame ATi for 'making me wait', but you know what; if you cant fight in the ring then you sit the hell out.

You can't really blame AMD/ATi for making you wait, they card will be out when its ready, in the mean time if you want to wait be patient :smile: . Its not like they are purposefully forcing you to play on Intel integrated graphics in the meantime

 

[Arty]

Well the steam survey can be forged (lied) using a simple inf hack also. IMO its not really the best market share #s to go by.

 

[Razor1]

true about the hack, but how many gamers will go through the hassle of that?

 

[nutball]

true about the hack, but how many gamers will go through the hassle of that?

And... why?

 

[Razor1]

whats the use of it? Unless a company is behind fudging the numbers what would a player gain out of it?

 

[nutball]

Indeed. (I was agreeing with you!).

Given that folks tend to either be... shall we say "passionate" about their choice of IHV, or totally disinterested / clueless it's a real stretch of the imagination to propose that thousands of gamers are buying ATI cards and spending the time and effort to hack their inf files to make it look like they bought NVIDIA ... because ... erm... they're really NVIDI-ites who feel bad about having bought ATI??? Does not compute!

So whilst it's true to say that it's not scientific its hard to see why there should be a strong sampling bias in favour of one IHV over the other, short of some dastardly marketing conspiracy (which I guess is not out of the question, but it seems like a lot of effort to me!).

Anyway I guess this is getting off topic, so I'll hush there!

 

[Geo]

Well the steam survey can be forged (lied) using a simple inf hack also. IMO its not really the best market share #s to go by.

So the passionate NV guy hacks his .inf to turn his ATI card into an NV card for the survey?

Err, why does passionate NV dude have an ATI card in his system in the first place?

I suspect the valve survey is pretty accurate within the limits of their own clientele, however you feel about the representative nature of that clientele vs the larger market. I mean, no market numbers are without weaknesses, that I've ever seen.

 

[ChrisRay]

Believe it or not! Most people dont care about the ATI and Nvidia war that much!