The Last of Us, Part 1 Remaster Remaster [PS5, PC]

Pricing for anything is entirely predicted on charging what you think people will pay, based on your target sales. It's not an arbitrary thing. You charge what people will pay then reduce the price over time to catch more and more people who weren't willing to bite previously.
Reading the rest of their post, that seems to be what they're saying - the series will help bring in new customers that haven't been exposed to the series before. It's different charging $80 for what a customer believes is a entirely 'new' game, at least for them.

TLOU1 has sold what, nearly 20 million by now? I'm sure there's still a fair chunk of gamers that may have only been exposed to the series with TLOU2 and would pick this up regardless if the HBO series existed or not, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to surmise that the attention the series will attract definitely had a part in Sony believing a full price for a remake (of what is still a relatively modern game) would not be a barrier to at least early sales.

It may drop in price relatively quickly, who knows. But I'm not sure the budget for this remake would be what it is without the series being greenlit.
 
Reading the rest of their post, that seems to be what they're saying - the series will help bring in new customers that haven't been exposed to the series before. It's different charging $80 for what a customer believes is a entirely 'new' game, at least for them.

TLOU1 has sold what, nearly 20 million by now? I'm sure there's still a fair chunk of gamers that may have only been exposed to the series with TLOU2 and would pick this up regardless if the HBO series existed or not, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to surmise that the attention the series will attract definitely had a part in Sony believing a full price for a remake (of what is still a relatively modern game) would not be a barrier to at least early sales.

It may drop in price relatively quickly, who knows. But I'm not sure the budget for this remake would be what it is without the series being greenlit.
But they said $70 for the standard edition. $80 is the Deluxe Edition.
Price is in line with every other AAA game on PS5 and Series
 
Reading the rest of their post, that seems to be what they're saying - the series will help bring in new customers that haven't been exposed to the series before. It's different charging $80 for what a customer believes is a entirely 'new' game, at least for them.

This is what I said in an earlier post. People who've played the games are asking, "why are they remaking this?" and the answer is, it's not aimed at you. Most gamers - heck even most PlayStation-owners - have not played The Last of Us.

This will have been a very carefully considered project, Sony didn't just throw people at these things on a whim and they are a company who do not cling to IP much at all, preferring to create new fresh IP. Sony will know from from PSN accounts who and has not bought/played The Last of US, Part II, other Naughty Dog games, or games of that same genre. They'll have identified a sufficiently-large chunk of gamers who they think will buy it if re-released, in part perhaps spurred on by the TV series.

There are people who missed this at the end of the PS3 generation, went Xbox last generation, then went PS5 this generation. Or from Sony's perspective, owned a PS3, didn't buy The Last of Us, and later bought a PS5. They'll know how many PS5 owners are actually playing PS4 games (like the PS4 remaster of the game) and who aren't. There will be people who missed the original, but don't like going into sequels (Part II) not having played the original, but are put-off by the older more clunky-mechanics.

There are probably a lot of factors and numbers feeding into Sony's decision that this was worth the cost of the project.
 
I dont know why some of you you call it mediocre. The gameplay totally immersed and engaged me even though it was linear. The way AI behaved and the tools it gave to the player had the variety and enough freedom to keep it fun.
Where Resident Evil focused on puzzles with backtracking but the enemy AI was braindead (you kno.... since they are zombies and deformed mutated monsters), TLOU is the reverse. Its puzzles are braindead, but dialed up the engagement with enemies to 11. They form packs, they change behaviors, you can form different approaches. Unlike most games they didnt overpack it with unnecessary gameplay mechanics and length. And they know how to eliminate repetition which is exactly what every Gears of War games were. Walk, cover shoot, pull lever, walk, cover, shoot, pull lever walk, cover shoot.....
ND knows how to keep gameplay simple, highly approachable, and yet very very engaging. Anyone can play their games, where Resident Evil games need special nerves and patience. If we ignore of course the bullshit that Resi 6 was, and the punching bags and bullet sponges of 4 and 5. Braindead puzzles and enemies.
I think it's important to understand the differences between Gears of War and ND. They are vastly different games from a design perspective, even though they do similar things. Firstly, Gears, like Halo, Doom, Destiny, and COD are all shooters. The primary gameplay loop is to aim and shoot, layered into that is positioning and movement. Then item management, consumables, and abilities are all additional layered designs. If you don't like aiming and shooting, then that category of game is not for you. But to say that Gears is poor design or poor encounter design because you can choose to play the encounter repetitively is not a criticism I think is fair. You are playing precisely to aim and shoot the way you want to aim and shoot and you have gameplay loops that support various methods of that, but to proceed you must ultimately aim and shoot. You don't have to walk, cover, and shoot. That's the most _basic_ and fundamental way to play and the better you get at gears the less of it you need to do.

Where TLOU gameplay, I have found severely limits what you can do by comparison. The primary gameplay loop is actually positioning and movement, managing your consumables and figuring out problems. Aiming and shooting is an optional gameplay loop that you can largely go without. You can probably finish the whole game putting less than 10% of your kills shooting. Whereas with gears it will be about 98% of your kills. But 98% of your kills in TLOU and your survivability will depend on movement and positioning, and sometimes in certain situations that process can be wholly slow and monotonous waiting for the opportunity to make my move. Whereas if I get beastly good at gears, and the better you get at the primary loops and secondary loops, you can blaze through a level. Cover and shooting the whole encounter is really just a survival mechanism because you have no other way to beat the encounter faster.

So that's sort of where I stand right now with TLOU. The fact that it forces me to slow down increases the immersion and makes the tension higher, sure, it's certainly more environmentally engaging in that sense, and gives a better feel of the story. But there are encounters I just want to blaze through because I feel like I'm past this, and it's so hard to, the option is rarely available. And if the tension and immersion mean little to you, then it starts to fall flat. Alien Isolation is a game where you cannot do anything but hide. Some people love it and some people don't. And I'm pretty certain it's not for me. I want to play games to be aggressive, I want to make aggressive moves in games because that's a liberating reversal from real-life. I appreciate precisely what they accomplished in this game, but I think, likely if I play TLOU2 - I think I would enjoy the additional options in combat situations there to be more flamboyant, to define combat with my own sense of style.

Right now, crouching around knifing people repeatedly and knowing that every player has done precisely this, but knifed the AI at a different spot on the map, is where I feel like, I wish there was a little more here to express myself.

I think if it were true that TLOU 1 gameplay did not age and did not require some improvements, then it runs counter to this: "faithfully reproduced, but incorporating modernized gameplay, improved controls, and expanded accessibility options. Plus feel immersed with improved effects and enhanced exploration and combat"

Once again, I know this is a great game, I'm just making commentary that its gameplay did not age well, so this remake is justifiable for people wanting to experience it for the first time. For me, good gameplay means that players can reach mastery. You can easily differentiate a player who has spent 100 hrs playing a game and purposefully getting better at it and one that did not actively try to get better.

This is mastery:
Gears 5
God of War
Doom
Assassin Creed: Origins
 
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Actually I felt part 2 was a massive improvement for core gameplay. Aggressive stealth felt very rewarding, e.g.


I enjoyed the story and characters of the first one a lot more though so maybe Part 1 is gonna be the ultimate TLOU for me :yes:
 
Actually I felt part 2 was a massive improvement for core gameplay. Aggressive stealth felt very rewarding, e.g.

It definitely was, and why bringing those abilities to TLOU1 is welcomed (just not $80 worth of appreciation for me).

I enjoyed the story and characters of the first one a lot more though so maybe Part 1 is gonna be the ultimate TLOU for me :yes:

My feelings as well. TLOU2 just reversed the positives/negatives TLOU1 had.
 
It definitely was, and why bringing those abilities to TLOU1 is welcomed (just not $80 worth of appreciation for me).



My feelings as well. TLOU2 just reversed the positives/negatives TLOU1 had.
Me three. TLOU2 dragged on way too long, they could have trimmed at least a third of the game and it would have been better IMO. Didn't care about the 2nd half of the story. Gameplay/graphics were top notch, though.
 
I will probably repurchase this as I haven't played it since the title was initially released on PS3. However, I don't see why Sony wouldn't do something like remake both 1 and 2 and release this as a combo set dedicated to exploiting the performance and features of the PS5.
 
I will probably repurchase this as I haven't played it since the title was initially released on PS3. However, I don't see why Sony wouldn't do something like remake both 1 and 2 and release this as a combo set dedicated to exploiting the performance and features of the PS5.
You have to wait for TLOU2 Director's cut and pay another 70 bucks for that one, silly.
 
You have to wait for TLOU2 Director's cut and pay another 70 bucks for that one, silly.
Jokes on them because of a certain event I probably will never play TLOU2. It took me 10 years to play to the end of RDR and that was by accident. LOL
 
I think it's important to understand the differences between Gears of War and ND. They are vastly different games from a design perspective, even though they do similar things. Firstly, Gears, like Halo, Doom, Destiny, and COD are all shooters. The primary gameplay loop is to aim and shoot, layered into that is positioning and movement. Then item management, consumables, and abilities are all additional layered designs. If you don't like aiming and shooting, then that category of game is not for you. But to say that Gears is poor design or poor encounter design because you can choose to play the encounter repetitively is not a criticism I think is fair. You are playing precisely to aim and shoot the way you want to aim and shoot and you have gameplay loops that support various methods of that, but to proceed you must ultimately aim and shoot. You don't have to walk, cover, and shoot. That's the most _basic_ and fundamental way to play and the better you get at gears the less of it you need to do.

Where TLOU gameplay, I have found severely limits what you can do by comparison. The primary gameplay loop is actually positioning and movement, managing your consumables and figuring out problems. Aiming and shooting is an optional gameplay loop that you can largely go without. You can probably finish the whole game putting less than 10% of your kills shooting. Whereas with gears it will be about 98% of your kills. But 98% of your kills in TLOU and your survivability will depend on movement and positioning, and sometimes in certain situations that process can be wholly slow and monotonous waiting for the opportunity to make my move. Whereas if I get beastly good at gears, and the better you get at the primary loops and secondary loops, you can blaze through a level. Cover and shooting the whole encounter is really just a survival mechanism because you have no other way to beat the encounter faster.

So that's sort of where I stand right now with TLOU. The fact that it forces me to slow down increases the immersion and makes the tension higher, sure, it's certainly more environmentally engaging in that sense, and gives a better feel of the story. But there are encounters I just want to blaze through because I feel like I'm past this, and it's so hard to, the option is rarely available. And if the tension and immersion mean little to you, then it starts to fall flat. Alien Isolation is a game where you cannot do anything but hide. Some people love it and some people don't. And I'm pretty certain it's not for me. I want to play games to be aggressive, I want to make aggressive moves in games because that's a liberating reversal from real-life. I appreciate precisely what they accomplished in this game, but I think, likely if I play TLOU2 - I think I would enjoy the additional options in combat situations there to be more flamboyant, to define combat with my own sense of style.

Right now, crouching around knifing people repeatedly and knowing that every player has done precisely this, but knifed the AI at a different spot on the map, is where I feel like, I wish there was a little more here to express myself.

I think if it were true that TLOU 1 gameplay did not age and did not require some improvements, then it runs counter to this: "faithfully reproduced, but incorporating modernized gameplay, improved controls, and expanded accessibility options. Plus feel immersed with improved effects and enhanced exploration and combat"

Once again, I know this is a great game, I'm just making commentary that its gameplay did not age well, so this remake is justifiable for people wanting to experience it for the first time. For me, good gameplay means that players can reach mastery. You can easily differentiate a player who has spent 100 hrs playing a game and purposefully getting better at it and one that did not actively try to get better.

This is mastery:
Gears 5
God of War
Doom
Assassin Creed: Origins
I am a bit confused with your reply. I think you are mostly mixing your personal preference between fast paced action and slower, with what makes good gameplay.
What you call sever limits, isnt about what TLOU being limiting. Its about you, not being able to run guns blazing like you can with games like Gears. For me it is the exact opposite. I found Gears of War severly limited even as a shooter and I ll explain why by comparing it with Doom (oh btw I didnt play 4 and 5. I am talking about what I experienced up until Judgement, so I am not sure if they fixed the repetitive gameplay that was pretty much almosty identical to Gears of War 1).
There isnt much variety in how I can approach the gameplay and destroy my enemies. I have shooting bullet sponge enemies, and mindless monsters bullet sponge enemies running mindlessly at me. You are precisely aiming and shooting and nothing else, with cover thrown into the mix. There was no proper pacing, no rhythm, no much in terms of enemy behavioral patterns and collaborations, not much in terms of mixing weaponry in a way that feels like the gameplay has flow. The game has slow walking that allows you to shoot, and running that limits you from doing almost anything else. Enemies have the most basic primitive behaviors which is a problem for a slow paced action game like Gears of War that is supposed to be grounded and presents you often with enemies that are the equivalent of humans or intelligent monsters.
Whereas in TLOU I do have multiple options, I am given an ability to approach my enemies using different strategies and my enemies have multiple behaviors and change according to the situation. They can panic, they can become confident, they can become more violent or scared, they can form packs, they try to trick you and ambush you from behind, they change weapons, they are situational. I can lay traps, I can use diversions, I can shoot enemies, I can use melee, I can craft weapons and traps according to the strategy that best suits my gameplay style etc in a way that feels balanced. And yes there are situations I can approach the game with going all out shooting and situations I can approach through stealth or mix them together and situations where I must use stealth and situations I must use weaponry to proceed.

Doom is a prime example of doing shooting right. Why? Because enemy types are designed to create a pacing, a flow, a rhythm that feels like a choreographed Jacky Chan movie but with guns, and you can switch and mix weapons in creative manners that only Devil May Cry could, replacing the melee with the guns, and the guns with melee finishing moves. Something that Gears of War lacked at least up until what I experienced with Judgement.
God of War does this also, it also has pacing and allows you to mix weapons and attacks and be creative. Again something Gears of War was lacking
Doom, God of War and TLOU have that same characteristic. Being able to mix tactics and be creative.
Cant comment on Assasin;s Creed: Origins because I didnt play it. I gave up after Unity since all Assasin's Creed games until that game felt clancky and broken.
 
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I think it's important to understand the differences between Gears of War and ND. They are vastly different games from a design perspective, even though they do similar things.
...
Where TLOU gameplay, I have found severely limits what you can do by comparison.

You pivoted from these games are vastly different to let's compare them. Following what Nesh said, if you were trying to play TLoU like Gears or any other fast-paced cover-based shooter then I think is why you found it limiting. The same would be true if you tried to play Gears like a ammo-limited stealth-murder, diversion-evasion game. You're going feel really limited by the lack of Gears's AI and lack of options for evasion because 99.9% of all encounters must end in a firefight.
 
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You pivoted from these games are vastly different to let's compare them. Following what Nesh said, if you were trying to play TLoU like Gears or any other fast-paced cover-based shooter then I think is why you found it limiting. The same would be true if you tried to play Gears like a ammo-limited stealth-murder, diversion-evasion game. You're going feel really limited by the lack of Gears's AI and lack of options for evasion because 99.9% of all encounters must end in a firefight.
No, the point was to discuss gameplay mastery. Guns blazing or not is important. You could play God of War using the basic combo from beginning to end and never try to get better and that would be considered a boring repetitive game. Which is effectively the same as saying Gears is boring because you just cover and shoot. Which would be true if you just didn’t try to get better at the game.

The point is that good game play should allow for mastery. If there isn’t mastery than the game is just one big experience. See the Medium. See Plagues Tale. Both incredible experiences, but it’s not the type of game where replaying it is going to constitute to gameplay mastery. There is little to master. I don’t have an issue with experiences that get out of my way so that I can experience the game. I found that just wasn’t the case with TLOU combat.

You can find videos of “what 100 hours of TLOU 2 looks like” and you can find videos of “what 100 hours of elden ring looks like”. You’re not going to find any for TLOU.
 
The point is that good game play should allow for mastery. If there isn’t mastery than the game is just one big experience. See the Medium. See Plagues Tale. Both incredible experiences, but it’s not the type of game where replaying it is going to constitute to gameplay mastery. There is little to master. I don’t have an issue with experiences that get out of my way so that I can experience the game. I found that just wasn’t the case with TLOU combat.

I'm not sure I really follow but it sounds like when you played The Last of Us, you did't get any better at combat from start to finish. That means that never really 'mastered' the various weapons and chosing which were better at various enemies, you never got better at nailing head shots (or other vulnerable areas) on moving targets, you never got better at using the environment to your advantage, to employ misdirection or other lures, that you never leaned to effectively stun enemies using objections before engaging with weapons, that you never learned to evade effectively.

There are all things which come only with practise. It definitely pales compared to Part II, but the game did not pickup endless accolades for gameplay with a flat combat system.
 
I'm not sure I really follow but it sounds like when you played The Last of Us, you did't get any better at combat from start to finish. That means that never really 'mastered' the various weapons and chosing which were better at various enemies, you never got better at nailing head shots (or other vulnerable areas) on moving targets, you never got better at using the environment to your advantage, to employ misdirection or other lures, that you never leaned to effectively stun enemies using objections before engaging with weapons, that you never learned to evade effectively.

There are all things which come only with practise. It definitely pales compared to Part II, but the game did not pickup endless accolades for gameplay with a flat combat system.
I haven’t finished TLOU yet. But my argument was that the gameplay feels dated and the remake offers a modernized combat. I didn’t put a gun to NDs head and convince them that this should be done. I’m just offering it as a reason to purchase it outside of graphical improvements. Combat and stealth pieces are a grind for me to get to the next story piece. To know there are 15 hrs of this is painful.

I think for its time it may have been heralded and I didn’t play it on release, but that’s not an argument I made. Not aging well is the argument I made. The remake aims to rectify this.
 
I'm not sure I really follow but it sounds like when you played The Last of Us, you did't get any better at combat from start to finish. That means that never really 'mastered' the various weapons and chosing which were better at various enemies, you never got better at nailing head shots (or other vulnerable areas) on moving targets, you never got better at using the environment to your advantage, to employ misdirection or other lures, that you never leaned to effectively stun enemies using objections before engaging with weapons, that you never learned to evade effectively.

There are all things which come only with practise. It definitely pales compared to Part II, but the game did not pickup endless accolades for gameplay with a flat combat system.
I’ll think on what you said and revise my opinion at a later time. For now ignore my last couple of messages. I did research speed running which is typically my bar for games. And TLOU can be speed run to 2:48 on grounded mode without glitching. So there is definitely some things I am not picking up on. I’ll revisit this later.
 
This will have been a very carefully considered project, Sony didn't just throw people at these things on a whim and they are a company who do not cling to IP much at all, preferring to create new fresh IP.
Caveat - that's what PS has traditionally been. Companies change, values change - maybe we're starting to see a new Sony that prefers to double-down on IPs? Don't know, but we can't take prior behaviour as inherently indicative of future behaviour, especially when we're seeing othwe changes such as bringing their IP to PC. A few years ago we'd be saying, "Sony are a company that keeps its content to its own platform to drive their value," only to find they are moving on from that mentality.
 
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