The impact of PS3 in winning the HD Format War

[Zaphod]

You got that backwards. The upcoming triple layer HD + DVD Twin disc will compromise image quality compared to the existing flipper combos. You get one layer less of either one or the other. On the... err... flip side, you don't have to use discs that have flip sides.

DVD-5 is probably enough for a decent SD encode of most theatrical releases, though, and can hopefully remove the premium for current combos. Flip-discs are just so inherently annoying that the no nonsense backwards compatibility of these should be preferable (even if you loose some space).

 

[Mintmaster]

You got that backwards. The upcoming triple layer HD + DVD Twin disc will compromise image quality compared to the existing flipper combos. You get one layer less of either one or the other. On the... err... flip side, you don't have to use discs that have flip sides.

Oh, I thought current twin discs (although rare) were 1 layer of each, hence lower quality, and the future ones were 2 layers of HD-DVD, thus maintaining quality relative to regular HD-DVDs. Am I wrong?

The single layer for DVD may be a bit lower quality, but I doubt it'd be enough to matter. It's just there for compatibility, and you have the HD-DVD high quality version on there anyway.

It's sort of like how LCD monitors with both VGA and DVI inputs often skimp on quality with the former because if you care about IQ then the latter is the way to go. VGA is just there for compatibility.

 

[Arwin]

I can't remember when I last saw a single layer DVD, if ever. I always notice because most players have a tiny pause when the player switches layers.

 

[Zaphod]

Am I wrong?

That's all up to the producer of a particular release. Some are HD15 combos but there are more HD30 ones. Don't know if any of them use only one DVD layer. Both HD DVD and good old DVD allow for double layer flip-discs. Thus, the current combos can be two layers on each side, the twin discs max three in total.

 

[DJ12]

You mean single layer, most dvds ar single sided.

Blu-Ray has already taken Europe, and HD-DVD is still being outsold by 2-1 in the US and people are still debating who is going to win.

It's already over as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe HD-DVD will survive in the US, but everywhere else it's done.

 

[Geo]

You mean single layer, most dvds ar single sided.

Blu-Ray has already taken Europe, and HD-DVD is still being outsold by 2-1 in the US and people are still debating who is going to win.

It's already over as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe HD-DVD will survive in the US, but everywhere else it's done.

They've sold, what, 5 HDTV's in Europe? Or was it 10? Okay, so it's probably more than that by now. Anyone heard a reliable number? Even as many as 2M yet?

 

[DJ12]

For more than a year HDTVs have been the fastest selling consumer product in the UK.

 

[Vic]

They've sold, what, 5 HDTV's in Europe? Or was it 10? Okay, so it's probably more than that by now. Anyone heard a reliable number? Even as many as 2M yet?

Here in the UK, I would suggest that its around 1/10 off the top of my head. Having said that, the UK is one of the more advanced/wealthy countires in Europe.

HD DVD indeed has a very low profile of here. I've never even seen an advert/event advertising the group. However, Blu-ray isnt miles ahead as a lot of people still dont know about it. However, PS3 has been selling well in the UK especially since the 40GB model was introduced, and Sony has been selling its Blu-ray capabilities much more recently. IMO, they need to bring disc prices down, as they're around £18-£23 on the high street.

Its true though that the UK is behind the US in terms of HDTV penetration. In fact, I cant believe that only 14% of Americans own HDTV's. Havent HD CRT's been available for years over there?

 

[Geo]

Its true though that the UK is behind the US in terms of HDTV penetration. In fact, I cant believe that only 14% of Americans own HDTV's. Havent HD CRT's been available for years over there?

That felt pretty low to me too, I was expecting something north of 20% by now. We bought our first HDTV (1080i only!) in 2002.

Edit: Looking around, it appears there is some criticism of that Nielsen study. ESPN is estimating 23% (which is much more in line with what I would have expected at this point) HDTV penetration in the US. A trade group with an obvious wishful thinking axe to grind suggests possibly as high as 32%.

Interestingly, the suggestion is that there are a lot of people out there buying HDTVs who don't understand they need to do something special to make sure they have HD content to view on it. I can see that, to some degree, because it can be somewhat complicated.

http://production.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=240703&afterinter=true

 

[Vic]

That felt pretty low to me too, I was expecting something north of 20% by now. We bought our first HDTV (1080i only!) in 2002.

Edit: Looking around, it appears there is some criticism of that Nielsen study. ESPN is estimating 23% (which is much more in line with what I would have expected at this point) HDTV penetration in the US. A trade group with an obvious wishful thinking axe to grind suggests possibly as high as 32%.

Interestingly, the suggestion is that there are a lot of people out there buying HDTVs who don't understand they need to do something special to make sure they have HD content to view on it. I can see that, to some degree, because it can be somewhat complicated.

http://production.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=240703&afterinter=true

Absolutely, I'm sure that there are many people out there who dont understand the difference between SD and HD broadcasts. Some probably expect SD to look better on their HDTV out-of-the-box.

DJ12 is right though, for the past couple of years all you have been able to buy in electronic stores is flatscreen tv's, the majority of which have been 'HD ready' or 'Full HD'. Nowadays a decent 32'' LCD can be bought for £500 in England.

What I dont understand is Toshiba lying down in Europe, and even Japan where Blu-ray seems to gathering all of the (admittedly limited) momentum. I know the whole 'Toshiba is merely delaying the adoption of HD media' theory has been debunked, but I dont get it. Anyone have any news on this? Because countries like England, France and Germany arent that far behind the US in HDTV adoption rates, and still little is heard about HD DVD despite PS3 selling in western Europe where Sony has strong brand-recognition.

 

[Geo]

DJ12 is right though, for the past couple of years all you have been able to buy in electronic stores is flatscreen tv's, the majority of which have been 'HD ready' or 'Full HD'. Nowadays a decent 32'' LCD can be bought for £500 in England.

I'm not questioning that. My point is I know my mother and mother-in-law are still using sets from the late '70s or early '80s! Look at us. . .we've bought three HDTVs, but it's still one household. All generalities suck, including this one.

 

[Vic]

I'm not questioning that. My point is I know my mother and mother-in-law are still using sets from the late '70s or early '80s! Look at us. . .we've bought three HDTVs, but it's still one household. All generalities suck, including this one.

LOL.

To be fair, most people my dad's age probably wouldnt see/hear any differences with HD anyway. And I mean that literally!

EDIT: I've just seen that Play and Amazon have a 3 for 2 deal on virtually all Blu-rays. That is a very good deal. We'll be able to see the extent of Blu-rays pre-eminence in Europe after Christmas, and whether or not PS3 owners are buying films. I know I'll certainly be getting the Pirates Trilogy!

 

[Malo]

Now, if the B-r player couldn't play DVD that *would* be a real problem, but that's not the situation. . .in fact, it makes 480p DVDs look better than any of our older DVD players.

This is actually why I'm buying a PS3 for my household, since I just bought my first HDTV. To me the decision was between the PS3 and the 360 Elite as I didn't care between either console for games, but I didn't want to get a standalone when I could get a console+player for the same price (1080p). There is no competition between the two in this regard, the 360 looks to be a very crappy HD & DVD player.

 

[RobertR1]

The war will be won/lost/tied in the US. Europe won't be a deciding factor.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

LOL.

To be fair, most people my dad's age probably wouldnt see/hear any differences with HD anyway. And I mean that literally!

That's just silly. I showed my mom the difference between an SD broadcast and an HD broadcast of a hockey game and she saw the difference right away, declaring it "like night and day". Granted, she's only 46, but her eyesight is pretty poor and she's no technophile so I still think that's worth something.

 

[Geo]

Wild forever!

/State of Hockey props

 

[Zaphod]

the 360 looks to be a very crappy HD & DVD player.

That's just not true. It's a pretty damn decent (and flexible) DVD player. Its playback quality as far as HD DVD goes doesn't seem to be lacking either, but it misses out on native output support for the advanced audio formats. All else being equal (and disregarding the different HD disc formats), the PS3 is (probably/IMO) the better HD player of the two, though, and it's definitely the one most likely to serve as a substitute for a standalone DVD/HD unit.

 

[Vic]

The war will be won/lost/tied in the US. Europe won't be a deciding factor.

Really?

So you dont think that if one format sells really well in Europe, but not very good in the US, the BR/HD DVD group will bury it?

To be honest I think, that Europe is very important. Like I say, Western Europe isnt that far behind the US, and Europe as a whole is significantly bigger than the US in population terms. Also as far as the PS3's impact goes, it is selling well here in Europe.

 

[Geo]

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6509196.html

DEC. 3 | The Blu-ray Disc Assn. is touting a new milestone passed over the Black Friday shopping period, noting that player sales since launch reached 2.7 million units through Nov. 24.

Like the HD DVD camp’s recent claims, the figure encompasses both Blu-ray-capable gaming devices and Blu-ray set-top players.

Hmm. 2.7M including PS3? Must be a North America-only number. Which come to think of it most of the content sales numbers I've been using are as well. So that would actually reduce the ratio of multi-function (PS3) units to standalone units so far as resulting content sales go is actually more like 5-1 rather than 10-1.

Oh, and Amazon just started a Warner Blu-ray buy-one-get-one sale. Get 'em while the getting is good.

 

[Sxotty]

Really?

So you dont think that if one format sells really well in Europe, but not very good in the US, the BR/HD DVD group will bury it?

To be honest I think, that Europe is very important. Like I say, Western Europe isnt that far behind the US, and Europe as a whole is significantly bigger than the US in population terms. Also as far as the PS3's impact goes, it is selling well here in Europe.

And like I said in their ideal world they would have a completely separate format. No need for region coding then.