The hodge fallout from Sony's Value Comparison chart *spawned*

[Tap In]

FFS.

These discussions about if you can buy a Wifi adapter for the X360 for $50 or for $10 are not only very boring and pointless but they are also completely irrelevant for the topic of this thread.

Well those points were brought up because every time it is mentioned initially that for a Hidef PS3, you need to spend $79 on an HDMI able, people point to "Monoprice $8".

so Yea, if we start from there, (Retail official add-ons as you suggest) and add to the fact that MORE people are going to NEED to connect to a Hidef TV than will NEED a wireless solution or HDD then you are correct, there really is no argument here.

X360 is CHEAPER in most every regard and the Price point for Sony is hurting them (point of thread)

 

[obonicus]

so Yea, if we start from there, (Retail official add-ons as you suggest) and add to the fact that MORE people are going to NEED to connect to a Hidef TV than will NEED a wireless solution or HDD then you are correct, there really is no argument here.

But I thought HD TVs weren't even popular and hadn't achieved any considerable penetration!

 

[DrJay24]

$199 Arcade
$29.99 (20GB HDD + 3mos live Pack)


it's called, having options. :smile:

I didn't know the 20GB kit exists, thanks for the info, yet it's $72 on Amazon. The rest of the "options" are again not realistic at most retailers, but I think people are just being argumentative at this point and it's getting OT.

 

[specwarGP2]

And of course I am sorry for derailing the thread, I didn't think that sony fans would come out of the wood work to actually defend this chart.

I find it ridiculous the examples you use to try and discredit this chart. A $10 wifi adapter from microcenter? Who is going to do that? If that's a valid option, then PS3 is only $249 when you get a Sony Card and use the $150 credit towards PS3. I guarantee you far more people have done exactly that then buying a $10 wifi adapter from microcenter (which doesnt even have a retail presence on the west coast) to use for their 360.

the chart is comparing prices at the retail level, and it's undisputable that feature for feature, PS3 80gb is better value than 360 arcade.

 

[Tap In]

I didn't know the 20GB kit exists, thanks for the info, yet it's $72 on Amazon. The rest of the "options" are again not realistic at most retailers, but I think people are just being argumentative at this point and it's getting OT.

limited time offer -assumed until the 20GB stock of new and refurbs diminishes (been available since release of the NXE)

 

[Tap In]

the chart is comparing prices at the retail level, and it's undisputable that PS3 80gb is better value than 360 arcade.

The more important point missed by the article that Sony is trying to promote is more people who buy the Arcade unit will ONLY open the box and start playing games at $199 and not require, nor desire all those other add ons.

 

[DrJay24]

The more important point missed by the article that Sony is trying to promote is more people who buy the Arcade unit will ONLY open the box and start playing games at $199 and not require, nor desire all those other add ons.

The low entry level is great, but Sony was trying to compare apples to apples, casting themselves in a good light. Of course MS would do as you are.

Just as an exercise, I went to Amazon and threw in the basket what was needed to be functionally equivalent of a 80GB PS3 + official PS3 component cable, which is $425.

The 360 comes to $443 without the cheapest BD player and $674 with it. So trying to argue the PS3 is not a value is nothing but bias. Not everyone wants everything it does, that's why we have choices like the PS2, Wii, 360, etc.

The 360 comes with two games (and better BC), so that is value added.

 

[catisfit]

The more important point missed by the article that Sony is trying to promote is more people who buy the Arcade unit will ONLY open the box and start playing games at $199 and not require, nor desire all those other add ons.

Of course, but surely they are trying to influence people who might desire all these other add-ons, before they make their purchasing decision?

If they still decide all they want is a vanilla Arcade, then it's had no effect. If it causes them to buy a PS3 or even delay their purchasing decision until the price is cut, then job done. That is exactly what this PR is trying to accomplish.

 

[tha_con]

The more important point missed by the article that Sony is trying to promote is more people who buy the Arcade unit will ONLY open the box and start playing games at $199 and not require, nor desire all those other add ons.

I disagree. While I only work part time at Gamestop, I have many people who ask me frequently what they would need to download the expansion that is coming out for GTA IV, or what "OLC" means.

When they explain to me how their Cabel modem is in one room, and their 360 is in another, and I explain they need a wireless network, they often exclaim "Oh, I do! So I can hook it up that way?"

"Yes sir, you just need to purchase this $99 WiFi adapter that plugs into the back of your system"

"----what?"

It's pretty much the product of heavy XBL advertising. MS offers these downloads with Gears of War 2, free XBL codes, and all these XBLA games that people want more of when they get an Arcade...then reality hits them.

Very few people have their cable modem set up near their TV, because they have offices or desks, etc. It's just an inconvenience.

The rest of the stuff I can agree with, but there is absolutely no excuse to exclude WiFi from your system, it should be in there day one, regardless of your ridiculous profit-turning motives. XBL alone generates enough revenue for them to offer free WiFi adapters, or include it in the damn system.

 

[eastmen]

The low entry level is great, but Sony was trying to compare apples to apples, casting themselves in a good light. Of course MS would do as you are.

Just as an exercise, I went to Amazon and threw in the basket what was needed to be functionally equivalent of a 80GB PS3 + official PS3 component cable, which is $425.

The 360 comes to $443 without the cheapest BD player and $674 with it. So trying to argue the PS3 is not a value is nothing but bias. Not everyone wants everything it does, that's why we have choices like the PS2, Wii, 360, etc.

The 360 comes with two games (and better BC), so that is value added.

You mind telling me what 360 u started out with and what you added to make it the value of the ps3 ?

 

[Tap In]

The low entry level is great, but Sony was trying to compare apples to apples, casting themselves in a good light. Of course MS would do as you are.

Just as an exercise, I went to Amazon and threw in the basket what was needed to be functionally equivalent of a 80GB PS3 + official PS3 component cable, which is $425.

The 360 comes to $443 without the cheapest BD player and $674 with it. So trying to argue the PS3 is not a value is nothing but bias. Not everyone wants everything it does, that's why we have choices like the PS2, Wii, 360, etc.

The 360 comes with two games (and better BC), so that is value added.

If you don't play online and just download trailers, movies and demos and chat with friends, you do not need a Live account (Free silver)... so $299 gives you an Ethernet connection to your wired online, a 60GB HDD and a HiDef cable out of the box (with 2 games iirc).

I think that is by far the more common need of a gamer. Not Blu ray and not wireless, nor gold live nor not larger HDD etc...

 

[DrJay24]

If you don't play online and just download trailers, movies and demos and chat with friends, you do not need a Live account (Free silver)... so $299 gives you an Ethernet connection to your wired online, a 60GB HDD and an HDMI cable out of the box (with 2 games iirc).

I think that is by far the more common need of a gamer. Not Blu ray and not wireless, nor gold live nor not larger HDD etc...

You are absolutely correct, I'm not arguing that. But for $100 more look at what you get... see the value yet?

Of course at $299 the 80GB would be a much better value, the best value on the market, but when can Sony afford it?

 

[Tap In]

You are absolutely correct, I'm not arguing that. But for $100 more look at what you get... see the value yet?

Yes if initially, you want or need more options out of the box there are certainly good value avenues on the PS3 platform. especially if you want online play with Ps3 friends or want to start a blu ray movie collection.

 

[eastmen]

You are absolutely correct, I'm not arguing that. But for $100 more look at what you get... see the value yet?

Of course at $299 the 80GB would be a much better value, the best value on the market, but when can Sony afford it?

Thats the thing what do you get ? What do you loose ?

For the extra $100 I get bluray and wifi . But I loose netflix and live.

For me netlifx is more important because through it I get to rent blurays , dvds and stream high def tv to my 360 and also my lg bluray player on the main tv .

Bluray isn't as important cause they can only be viewed on two tvs in the house , my sisters and my parents don't really have acess to it and thus we'd have to buy the disc twice

 

[tha_con]

If you don't play online and just download trailers, movies and demos and chat with friends, you do not need a Live account (Free silver)... so $299 gives you an Ethernet connection to your wired online, a 60GB HDD and an HDMI cable out of the box (with 2 games iirc).

I think that is by far the more common need of a gamer. Not Blu ray and not wireless, nor gold live nor not larger HDD etc...

I think Wireless interenet connections are far more common than HDTVs. You know, a $50 router vs a $1500 TV.

I stand by it, I would rather them package in WiFi than an HDMI cable.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the only XBox 360 to include an HDMI cable is the $399 SKU, not the $299 SKU. The $299 SKU includes Composite and Component cables only.

Thats the thing what do you get ? What do you loose ?

For the extra $100 I get bluray and wifi . But I loose netflix and live.

For me netlifx is more important because through it I get to rent blurays , dvds and stream high def tv to my 360 and also my lg bluray player on the main tv .

Bluray isn't as important cause they can only be viewed on two tvs in the house , my sisters and my parents don't really have acess to it and thus we'd have to buy the disc twice

You lose live, but online gaming is free on PSN.

You loose netflix for your 360 only, you do not lose the ability to rent DVDs and Blu-Rays. You can also stream your netflix through your PS3 Webbrowser if I'm not mistaken, and you still have the ability to stream those films to your PC.

Not to mention with the PS3 you gain access to Hulu.com on your bigscreen TV, which is free and features very few commercials.

Are we done comparing yet and trying to justify why Sony is so evil? Seriously, there are trade offs either way, and this is stupid, for every single strength you post, I can counter it with another feature on another console. This is absolutely pointless.

 

[Tap In]

...
The rest of the stuff I can agree with, but there is absolutely no excuse to exclude WiFi from your system, it should be in there day one, regardless of your ridiculous profit-turning motives. XBL alone generates enough revenue for them to offer free WiFi adapters, or include it in the damn system.

I agree... the "no wifi" thing even though it is not necessary for some, is a weak link in the chain for MS's price structure. It pisses me off they do not include it. I had to buy one for one system and for the other arcade unit we don't need it.

 

[Tap In]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the only XBox 360 to include an HDMI cable is the $399 SKU, not the $299 SKU. The $299 SKU includes Composite and Component cables only.

yes I believe that is correct. In the same vein, I can not FATHOM how sony leaves a hidef cable out of the box. I can't imagine how many people must have a PS3 attached to a hidef tv with composite cables.

edit: although the 360 arcade unit ships only with composite now that I think about it (which sucks). I actually used the Component cable from my elite to hook up the Arcade unit because the elite comes with both HDMI cable and component/composite.

so, the component cables add another $20 to the Arcade price.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Everybody here seems to forget a few things.

1. ITS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS TO DO THESE "VALUE" COMPARISONS

Everybody has different percieved value of different features. Some buy a PS3 because its a bluray player, some buy a X360 arcade just to play Viva Pinata.

Since everybody percieves and attaches different values for different features, any value comparison is by default flawed because the "value" for each feature is completely subjective.

Saying that the "PS3 is better value" and claiming that as an undisputable fact is ridiculous. Nobody here can possible determine the proper percieved value of any of the features here that will go inline with the average percieved value of the consumers.

And here is the trumph card for all value discussions:

The AVERAGE CONSUMER thinks that the WII @ $250 is better value than a X360@200 or an PS3@ $400 bucks.

This is, unlike what you people have presented so far, an UNDISPUTABLE FACT

Perhaps this undisputable fact will help you understand why your discussions are borderline with stupidity. Its like arguing what color is "best".

All of you are arguing subjective opinions, there are no facts here, one person thinks that the Ps3 bluray capability is worth $200 and somebody else thinks that ps3 bluray is worth 0$. There is no right and wrong answer, because you are dealing with percieved value. '

And since there is no right and wrong answer (obviously, since you are arguing SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS) this discussions are undoubtfully fruitless and pointless.

2. This thread is about PS3 price drops.

 

[Tap In]

it's not like we think we're setting world policy on it; we're just having a conversation.

 

[specwarGP2]

Saying that the "PS3 is better value" and claiming that as an undisputable fact is ridiculous. Nobody here can possible determine the proper percieved value of any of the features here that will go inline with the average percieved value of the consumers.

Why is it ridiculous? The chart that eastmen brought up has already set the metric for determining value - RETAIL pricing, nothing else. Feature for feature, PS3 clearly has more value.

You're talking about perceived value. You can argue that for whatever reason you perceive silver to have more value than gold, but when you actually go out and buy an ounce of each you'll see that gold clearly has more $$ value.