Teamxbox confirms that hdd will be included and free network gameplay
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CountZeroInt
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Sigh, so many people misinterpreting. There's something called "TRC" in game industry, this is something like a check list which every game has to pass before Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo give it the green light for release.
Sony has, so far and from what I have heard, only started to imply that coding for a hard drive will be part of the TRC. They have not specifically said that the HDD will be included out of box. So all games released would have to make use of it in some way, in the same way that all Xbox Live games have to support Feature A, B, C for example.
Probably the thing causing more of a meltdown and distress is the sudden declaration that all games will be Blu Ray. This is a very "Nintendo" move for Sony to make, and is clearly a move to ensure they will have control over content delivery. The problem with Blu Ray games is we still don't know if the drive will be fast enough to stream worth crap (and the specs are currently pointing at the "crap" end of the spectrum), and they are way more expensive than DVD to manufacture. Pennies add up to a lot, and trust me the cost will be eaten by publishers not the retailers.
Anyway, the kits aren't out there, they aren't finished or polished enough to be even 6 or 9 months away from decent games (the ones that are out there are producing good graphics but tools/OS/etc is not there at all while MS tools are already sprinting towards second gen). So that's why some people are saying don't get your hopes up for many PS3 games this year - I think we'll get what we've seen so far, Untold Legends, Tekken, Lair, Heavenly Sword, maybe 3 or 4 more if they get done by time. This is not breaking NDA or anything - it's a simple fact that Sony have slipped on their schedule and the people I know were predicting at least Spring 07 for US and Summer 07 for Europe, so if they pinch supply in Japan and pull off a worldwide launch I will be surprised.
GDC we will see some middleware announced for PS3, especially for online stuff, but honestly they are still years behind MS...it's not even a competition. If I can describe the difference it would be like writing 10 code files with 5,000 lines of code compared to including a header and writing 30 lines of code.
Sony has, so far and from what I have heard, only started to imply that coding for a hard drive will be part of the TRC. They have not specifically said that the HDD will be included out of box. So all games released would have to make use of it in some way, in the same way that all Xbox Live games have to support Feature A, B, C for example.
Probably the thing causing more of a meltdown and distress is the sudden declaration that all games will be Blu Ray. This is a very "Nintendo" move for Sony to make, and is clearly a move to ensure they will have control over content delivery. The problem with Blu Ray games is we still don't know if the drive will be fast enough to stream worth crap (and the specs are currently pointing at the "crap" end of the spectrum), and they are way more expensive than DVD to manufacture. Pennies add up to a lot, and trust me the cost will be eaten by publishers not the retailers.
Anyway, the kits aren't out there, they aren't finished or polished enough to be even 6 or 9 months away from decent games (the ones that are out there are producing good graphics but tools/OS/etc is not there at all while MS tools are already sprinting towards second gen). So that's why some people are saying don't get your hopes up for many PS3 games this year - I think we'll get what we've seen so far, Untold Legends, Tekken, Lair, Heavenly Sword, maybe 3 or 4 more if they get done by time. This is not breaking NDA or anything - it's a simple fact that Sony have slipped on their schedule and the people I know were predicting at least Spring 07 for US and Summer 07 for Europe, so if they pinch supply in Japan and pull off a worldwide launch I will be surprised.
GDC we will see some middleware announced for PS3, especially for online stuff, but honestly they are still years behind MS...it's not even a competition. If I can describe the difference it would be like writing 10 code files with 5,000 lines of code compared to including a header and writing 30 lines of code.
CountZeroInt said:
Your are saying it's not NDA, and yet no one else is saying this? Years behind? That's quite a statement, and rather pointless to make as in saying decades behind, when the only proof you have for this is "people I know".
I guess one could argue, that MS having Live! estabilished for years, and working on it all this time, that they are years ahead, but saying that Sony is years behind in coding in getting a functional online system working is just silly especially considering Sony has been running Everquest for years. If you are going to argue that Live! and what Everquest are doing is worlds apart, you can forget it. They are certainly similar enough.
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Or you could realize that MS is a software house that have made development tools one of their highest priorities going back over 3 years now, and Sony has always been known for rather poor developer support, which again seems to be the case with PS3 according to alot of the grumblings we've been hearing from dev's re: lack of libraries, documentation, and debug tools.
mckmas8808
Legend
scooby_dooby said:
OR you could realize that Sony is a hardware house that given the same playing field would have hardware that is better capable that what MS could offer. Here's to hoping for that bundled 60 Gig HDD.
scooby_dooby
Legend
which they have, with the inclusion of BR, instead of DVD, they have increased cost over the 360 substantially.mckmas8808 said:
ANyways, I agree: "Here's to hoping for that bundled 60 Gig HDD.
"I want to see it happen as much as anyone, moreso than most if you look back at the old HDD arguments. I was one of the only Pro-HDD guys around here, when 90% of the board was saying they were a waste of money and pointless....oh how opinions have changed now!
scooby_dooby said:which they have, with the inclusion of BR, instead of DVD, they have increased cost over the 360 substantially.
ANyways, I agree: "Here's to hoping for that bundled 60 Gig HDD.
I want to see it happen as much as anyone, moreso than most if you look back at the old HDD arguments. I was one of the only Pro-HDD guys around here, when 90% of the board was saying they were a waste of money and pointless....oh how opinions have changed now!
Like everyone said, it's been conirmed [gamasutra], drop it.
...but some people will still refuse to believe it.
As they should really, personally I don't believe anything Microsoft or Sony says of their hardware until they are launched. I guess I was just scarred too badly by the xbox360 harddrive U-turn.
As they should really, personally I don't believe anything Microsoft or Sony says of their hardware until they are launched. I guess I was just scarred too badly by the xbox360 harddrive U-turn.
mckmas8808
Legend
rabidrabbit said:
To me I don't think we should think just because MS lied to us that means Sony will too about the HDD. All I need is for Phil Harrison tomorrow to say "The HDD will be bundled" and I'm all set.
mckmas8808
Legend
pipo said:
At that time it was well-known. I'm still trying to find a direct quote. This is all I can find now.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=10777
But you're quoting that from an article titled "Xbox 360 may not always have a hard drive, confirms Allard". He's confirming that a HDD isn't part of basic 360 spec.
So again, where is the "MS HDD lie?"
[Edit] This is going to turn into the next "MS claimed they'd sell 100 million Xboxes" style myth, which they also never said. [/Edit]
So again, where is the "MS HDD lie?"
[Edit] This is going to turn into the next "MS claimed they'd sell 100 million Xboxes" style myth, which they also never said. [/Edit]
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mckmas8808
Legend
function said:
No in the article you can tell that at that time offically it was known that the HDD was in the spec. I believe it was E3 that MS stated that the HDD was standard. Again I'm still looking for that confrimation.
Edited:
No this will not turn into that. I know MS never meant that. And aren't you talking about the billion unit sells number?
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mckmas8808 said:
That link points to a story whose title is "Xbox 360 may not always have a hard drive, confirms Allard" , not really helping your cause.
At any rate, who cares. Bottom line is if its standard in PS3, and how much a bundled configuration would cost.
Also, if the PS3 makes a HD standard, will MS respond by tilting the premium/core more towards to the premium with the eventuality of the premium becoming the de facto standard. Half of me says "yes" but the other half thinks MS will feel "its more important to get to $149."
Are we playing the revisionist history game? Allard quite clearly (unless I'm going crazy, which is quite possible at this point) stated that an HDD was standard with every Xbox 360 system (which technically may be true, if you're into the semantics game -- Xbox 360 does have it, it's the Xbox 360 Core that doesn't).
Doesn't really matter though...
Doesn't really matter though...
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