*Sub-Thread* Consoles as the Ultimate Media Hub

[wco81]

Noisy? You can barely hear my gaming machine at full load, let alone my HTPC...

HTPCs are nice, someone simply needs to package them preconfigured with a few of the customers predefined specifications and you'd have a winning package. You can build a freaking awesome HTPC these days for really cheap, talking $500 for a great system that will age very well thanks to the functions it does. So price isn't really that bad. It's just no one has a use most of the time. Besides DVR functionality few people have large enough movie collections, music, or want to use the other features at their TV. Give it a bit of time though, DVRs will slowly evolve into full fledged HTPCs.

That's good for people who like to build PCs.

What about people who don't, which comprise the majority of would-be HTPC users?

Where's a pre-built HTPC box for $500 with Vista or MCE, with a remote, which is quiet and has a 1-year warranty (something that Visa/MC/Amex would warranty for another year -- they won't warranty white box PCs)?

And, for a lot of people, that thing has to work out of the box, without installing software. It has to work with cable or DBS systems without separate STBs.

Because you can get DVRs which are also tuners for cable or DBS for way way under $500.

Yes there is more functionality, like I don't know, watching downloaded Xvid videos or whatever but the mainstream audience isn't going to wait hours or days to download torrents.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

PCs aren't used for media only. Photo processing and editing, same with video, small office related stuff to manage your expenses and print stuff, and so on. And of course browsing the web and writing emails is a lot more convenient with a computer than with a PS3, too.

Oh and by PC I also mean Macs...

 

[archangelmorph]

PCs aren't used for media only. Photo processing and editing, same with video, small office related stuff to manage your expenses and print stuff, and so on. And of course browsing the web and writing emails is a lot more convenient with a computer than with a PS3, too.

Oh and by PC I also mean Macs...

Don't forget programming..

 

[valioso]

But the standalones don't work as well. That's my point. And as I said it's only the initial setup that is more complex. In day to day operation the standalone presents no advantage in ease of use. But go ahead and cling to your preconceptions if you choose.

Is not a preconceptions, the mass market of users are not very bright when it comes to seting up pc's or dvd's, some don't even know how to operate a damn dvr. I think most people that have ever worked tech support for any kind of business could relate to this.

 

[Nesh]

Is not a preconceptions, the mass market of users are not very bright when it comes to seting up pc's or dvd's, some don't even know how to operate a damn dvr. I think most people that have ever worked tech support for any kind of business could relate to this.

I have to agree with that. The mass market involves casuals, and people that lack the tehcnical know how. These prefer something that is easy to install and use but at the same time is functional enough to enjoy. They are less concerned with having 100% functionality in every possible detail.

 

[AlNom]

Mod Note: Alrighty! Please continue.

 

[quest55720]

Until one of the conoles are cracked they are never going to be real media centers. Sony and MS just don't care enough to add all the codec support and other features needed. If one of the consoles is cracked and there is a home brew product of the calibur of xbox media center then I could see a console being the media center. Store the files on your PC or NaS and stream them to your console. I still use a modded xbox as a media hub for my last SD TV. I just wish one of the console makers would make a real media center. I would gladly pay 99 dollars for a next gen xbox media center that has monthly or quarterly codec updates.

 

[patsu]

It is possible as long as consoles can offer a easier to use and cheaper solution, plus direct access to content.

The game controller interface (e.g., [] ^ X O, A B X Y) is too clunky. Wiimote, EyeToy/PS Eye (if workable), touch screen remotes, etc. may work better to various degree. Then think of a spearhead app for the living room (or kitchen). PVR is one, but I'm sure people can think of more (Magic Mirror, Magic Mirror, Magic Mirror). A tight integration with existing infrastructure may be necessary. e.g., It would be better if the program guide shows the actual TV programs in thumbnail instead of just acronyms like KQED, CNN, etc; remote recording via Internet/cellphone should be possible, ...

It may be something that people need to experience before they buy (or they are convinced). Talking and regular promotion may not work. Even better if PS2/PS3 can be used for a free limited "demos" (then upgradable to chargeable one).

Once a beachhead (other than pure gaming) is established, additional features/codecs can be added overtime. The current hodge podge way to "lump" media functions together may not work. Single purpose appliance also may not work. The key seems to be integration. Sony has a few key pieces, so they stand a chance.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Until one of the conoles are cracked they are never going to be real media centers. Sony and MS just don't care enough to add all the codec support and other features needed.

How many codecs and features does Joe Public need? DVD players that aren't chipped nor region free still sell well enough because Joe Public doesn't care. You plug it into your TV, and get a menu to play your media. That's all they need. Techies with buckets of media across a zillion different formats need tons of features, but for that they'll always be better served by a PC. The average household is a different story. We're talking households that don't calibrate their TV, couldn't use a VCR properly, the female population of which doesn't even get the idea between using the TV's input button to switch between devices, who have trouble working out which wire goes where during setup, and who make up the bulk of the billion+ of potential buyers who would like such a system who at the moment neither buy consoles nor Media PCs.

 

[tuna]

For me the PS3 works really well as a mediahub. The only real problem is that under GNU/Linux there is no good way to transcode .mkv to .mp4 which bugs me alot!

But I have a unusual setup maybe. I put all the movies I want to watch on my own web server which I then download to the PS3. For music I use Rhythmbox....

 

[scooby_dooby]

I still use my modded Xbox1 as my media hub, it's still totally superior to the 360's interface.

Quick sharing using simple shared folders, none of this convoluted MediaPC setup with verification codes etc. Very fast browsing, tons of display/subtitle options, and support for almost everything.

Very stable, always connects to shares even when computer has come out of hibernation, unlike 360 *ahem*

The only drawback is it chokes on HD content, but I guess that little CPU can only do so much.

My 360 is very useful as a front end for my Media Centre TV downloads though. This is one area where it excels, with virtually no setup you have a full functioning TV guide on your 360, with excellent PVR software.

 

[Rangers]

I am really loving 360 as a set top box with the addition of Divx/Xvid.

Virtually any video I can torrent, I can easily stream to my TV now. The possibilities are myriad.

It's really wonderful.

I was going to buy one of those $40 DVD players that can play anything you throw at it, but now there is no need. Saves a ton of trouble/expense burning stuff to DVD/CD also.

Oh I suppose the fact I own a media remote for 360 helps a lot in this scenario.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I on the contrary beleive that consoles are close into becoming entertainment devices.

Price: Consoles despite playing games, are approaching the selling prices of media devices. A non-gamer who owns a device that can play games will practically pay too little or zero extra money for the extra feature.

I dont think it cheaper. Didnt the US already had a 100dollar HD player action? the cheapest console BR/HD player would be about 4 times as expensive. Ofcourse they will come down in price but by the time they are 100 - 200 dollars you'll have 25 dollar HD/BR players just as is the case with DVD players. Also I dont see a non gamer buy a console for media playback, to them it will be more a game machine than a media machine and a stand alone player will be cheaper.

It is also much cheaper than owning a PC and you dont have to pass through the hassle of buying cables and extentions to connect yoru device to your TV.

Well most people have a pc already so that isnt a extra investment and you'll have to use cables for your console to. I dont think that will be much of a issue.

User Friendliness: From personal experience with both 360 and especially the PS3, user friendliness is one great characteristic. You can easilly access your media. Even a kid.

Personally I think WMC is very userfriendly do. About as easy as it will get I think.

More than just simple media features: Except from the game and movie/audio features, there are extra ones not common in other set top box devices laying under your TV. One such feature is visual and audio conversation from your TV. Then there is home that may appeal to younger ages

Everything you console can do your average pc can do to. Big advantage of consoles would be that you dont have to bother with extra software though most people would buy their HTPC in a store too so that will most likely also be already configured.

Updateability: Thts pretty self explanatory. The updates both consoles are recieveing are huge. Comparing how they were when they launched and how they are now there is a very noticable difference. They are getting very specific updates for controlling and viewing your media, and both of these consoles since are in an extremely competitive market, the companies are constantly in touch with the consumer, and improve the features based on a continuous stream of feedback.

Again this isnt anything a HTPC cant do. Your HTPC can be configured to your needs while with a console you will be limited to what a builder thinks you need.

Storage: This is a limiting factor but the console offerings are passing through various revisions. Both 360 and PS3 are released with bugger storages. PS3 also offers the ability to replace easilly your HDD with a bigger one.

That wont beat the 3 to 4 hdd's you can fit in a average case. Not to mention its cheaper.

Media support: media formats are added. PS3 and 360 getting DivX as an example. They are reaching a point were the consumer wont care much about an extra or two formats missing.

HTPC's play everything.

The big advantage consoles have is their price. However I think somebody that is interrested in a media hub will be very likely to pay more for the HTPC because it just offers more capabilities and customization to what is wanted/needed.

 

[Xpuntar]

For me the PS3 works really well as a mediahub. The only real problem is that under GNU/Linux there is no good way to transcode .mkv to .mp4 which bugs me alot!

But I have a unusual setup maybe. I put all the movies I want to watch on my own web server which I then download to the PS3. For music I use Rhythmbox....

You are not using VLC player at all? It is the best movie player for Linux systems. With VLC you can actually play your movies directly (on PS3) from your server.

 

[Diamond.G]

SNIP

I like to think of consoles as a gateway drug to HTPC's. Just enough functionality to get you hooked. If you want any more customization you have to basically get a HTPC.

 

[patsu]

Yeah... technology has evolved enough that all of us have our favorite media hub, but the public will need the extra omph and simplicity to drive that hockey stick growth. Otherwise, even if companies have sold thousands and millions of units, they can still be overtaken in a short time by competitors that do the right thing (e.g., MP3 players vs iPod, PS3 + 360 vs Wii, MS Smartphones/Blackberry vs iPhone in US is another one to watch).

The market is very fragmented. So the players still have room to decide how they want to position themselves. But doing it by collecting codecs is insufficient.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I dont think it cheaper. Didnt the US already had a 100dollar HD player action? the cheapest console BR/HD player would be about 4 times as expensive. Ofcourse they will come down in price but by the time they are 100 - 200 dollars you'll have 25 dollar HD/BR players just as is the case with DVD players. Also I dont see a non gamer buy a console for media playback, to them it will be more a game machine than a media machine and a stand alone player will be cheaper.

Standalone players aren't all-in-one solutions. An HDD player won't stream content over the network, access internet content, or let you rip CDs and copy the data onto your portable MP3 player. It's these sort of function that the Ultimate Media Hub needs.

Well most people have a pc already so that isnt a extra investment and you'll have to use cables for your console to. I dont think that will be much of a issue.

Most people's PCs aren't up to the job of playing back HD content, especially if multi-tasked with the other use the PC gets as a PC, and they're not configured as media devices.

Personally I think WMC is very userfriendly do. About as easy as it will get I think.

Yes, WMC's very good in layout and access, although the use I've seen of it has involved ducking back into Windows proper to do 'stuff' (dunno what and dunno how essential it is).

Everything you console can do your average pc can do to. Big advantage of consoles would be that you dont have to bother with extra software though most people would buy their HTPC in a store too so that will most likely also be already configured.

1) Your average PC, average being that people own rather than buy new, isn't up to playing HD games of PS360 calibre or playing HD movies fantastically well.

2) If you're buying a new system, you're up against the cost factor. When PS360 reach the $200-250 mark, will you be able to get a Media PC that's as functional in all areas for the same price? Isn't the minimum price for an entry level PC always going to be upwards of some $350? And what you get for that likely wouldn't work well as a media PC. Although you would have to add the cost of storage to the console solution.

Again this isnt anything a HTPC cant do. Your HTPC can be configured to your needs while with a console you will be limited to what a builder thinks you need.

Average Joe doesn't do configuration! Average Joe takes it out the box, plugs it in, and uses it with the default settings.

That wont beat the 3 to 4 hdd's you can fit in a average case. Not to mention its cheaper.

Average Joe isn't going to be opening up their case to fit more HDDs. For a medium system they'll need to be sold the 'Media System Extended Storage Box', a NAS system preconfigured to run.

The big advantage consoles have is their price. However I think somebody that is interrested in a media hub will be very likely to pay more for the HTPC because it just offers more capabilities and customization to what is wanted/needed.

And simplicity! Some people don't seem to get the simplicity thing! More capabilities and customization are just plain lost on the mass market.

 

[Nesh]

I dont think it cheaper. Didnt the US already had a 100dollar HD player action? the cheapest console BR/HD player would be about 4 times as expensive. Ofcourse they will come down in price but by the time they are 100 - 200 dollars you'll have 25 dollar HD/BR players just as is the case with DVD players. Also I dont see a non gamer buy a console for media playback, to them it will be more a game machine than a media machine and a stand alone player will be cheaper.



Well most people have a pc already so that isnt a extra investment and you'll have to use cables for your console to. I dont think that will be much of a issue.



Personally I think WMC is very userfriendly do. About as easy as it will get I think.



Everything you console can do your average pc can do to. Big advantage of consoles would be that you dont have to bother with extra software though most people would buy their HTPC in a store too so that will most likely also be already configured.



Again this isnt anything a HTPC cant do. Your HTPC can be configured to your needs while with a console you will be limited to what a builder thinks you need.



That wont beat the 3 to 4 hdd's you can fit in a average case. Not to mention its cheaper.



HTPC's play everything.

The big advantage consoles have is their price. However I think somebody that is interrested in a media hub will be very likely to pay more for the HTPC because it just offers more capabilities and customization to what is wanted/needed.

But the point is that consoles are approaching HTPCs more and more, not that they they have something HTPCs dont. Also not everyone knows every detail or has the technical know how to use their PC's as media servers. A console is a quick plug in and play solution directly connected to your TV.

It is easier to imagine millions everyday people using their consoles for their general entertainment needs than millions of everyday people trying to turn their PC's into the ultimate media servers, pulling cords from room to room only to connect them to their TV set.

There is a reason why people still buy DVD players despite the extra functionality of PCs.

edit: seems like Shifty summed and explained everything better before I clicked the submit button

 

[joker454]

2) If you're buying a new system, you're up against the cost factor. When PS360 reach the $200-250 mark, will you be able to get a Media PC that's as functional in all areas for the same price?

You already can get very powerful pc's dirt cheap. For example, there was a recent deal to get a Dell PC, loaded with a quad core cpu and a 22" LCD for $550. If you want even cheaper all you need is the cheapest core2duo based machine with a cheap nvidia 8 series card, which can decode VC-1, AVC, etc, all on the gpu. You'd be amazed how cheap you can build a very capable HD home theater computer, especially in the US. As a side bonus, you can load it up with emulators and play all your favorite old games on your big screen tv!

All the pieces are available to have a HTPC that does it all, cheaply. Many of us already do it (myself included), in my case I use a Radeon card with hdmi out so I have a one cable to the tv solution. The pc is in the closet so I don't even hear it, and I use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard so I can surf the web while chillin on the couch. What's needed now is someone to just put all the pieces together as one sleek box for the masses. I do not think the stand alone consoles will ever replace a pc as a media hub for two main reasons:

1) Console makers will always bicker and argue as for what formats to support and with what limitations. Bottom line, I get videos from everywhere, the internet, inlaws, youtube, friends, etc. I get them in every possible format, wmv, quicktime, rm, xvid, etc. My HTPC pc plays them all flawlessly. Always will. I've tried time and time again to get these damn consoles to playback my videos and they never do it right. They will always play some, but never all. Whats the point of a media hub that can't play my media?

2) Console makers will always assume that you, me and everyone else are all thieves. This means their machines will always be crippled by drm or some stupid restrictions that once again makes them useless. For example, the 2gb file limitation on divx playback on PS3. I guess it never occurred to Sony that I may get a 4gb divx hd file from a family member, that they converted from a 10gb .m2t source file from their HDV video camera. Got forbid I should be allowed to watch video footage of my niece.

Time and time again I try using the consoles as media boxes and time and time again they just prove to be worthless so I always go back to my pc which plays everything. Maybe one day they will prove me wrong but I doubt it. The really sad part is that the PS3 *could* be the ultimate media hub. It really could! Sony will just never let it though.

 

[patsu]

1) Console makers will always bicker and argue as for what formats to support and with what limitations. Bottom line, I get videos from everywhere, the internet, inlaws, youtube, friends, etc. I get them in every possible format, wmv, quicktime, rm, xvid, etc. My HTPC pc plays them all flawlessly. Always will. I've tried time and time again to get these damn consoles to playback my videos and they never do it right. They will always play some, but never all. Whats the point of a media hub that can't play my media?

Depends on how you package the service, an end user may not need to access the same movie in different/multiple formats. But you're right to say that consoles are behind PCs in codec and format support. So PCs are definitely more versatile if you know what you're doing.

I still can't get my XP laptop to play DivX movies (Something in the registry or config have gone wrong). Have reinstalled Windows Media and divx many times in vain. I switched to a Mac, but then it does not support WMV. Now PS3 can support both, but it is not as forgiving in terms of format compliance.

2) Console makers will always assume that you, me and everyone else are all thieves. This means their machines will always be crippled by drm or some stupid restrictions that once again makes them useless. For example, the 2gb file limitation on divx playback on PS3. I guess it never occurred to Sony that I may get a 4gb divx hd file from a family member, that they converted from a 10gb .m2t source file from their HDV video camera. Got forbid I should be allowed to watch video footage of my niece.

Reading GAF... I was told that the 2Gb limit is a technical limitation of the basic divx spec. There are some extensions to make it go beyond 2Gb but it's not implemented in PS3.
Specifically, divx is MPEG4 Advanced Simple Profile (ASP) in AVI container, but the basic AVI container has a 2Gb upper limit. Work was done to hack/extend the container to support larger files but this is not in PS3.
e.g., You can find some hints here: http://www.divx-digest.com/articles/vhs_capture.html