*Sub-Thread* Consoles as the Ultimate Media Hub
- Thread starter Diamond.G
- Start date
Slightly better sales.
Jack Tretton's interview sums it up nicely (emphasis mine)...
We've had lots of shots at this business, back with CD-i and Commodore's CDTV and other gamey/computery CE devices, but the industry was never there. We've had set-top box revolutions always just around the corner without anything happening. On paper the market looks dead set to emerge sooner or later, and if you can land it, you're laughing. It's why MS got into the console biz. till, it hasn't happened for years of prediction and it may never happen in a big way, but we are seeing growth in the sector with Media PCs and media enabled consoles. It's because this market could be on the cusp of a major transformation that nothing is predictable through conventional analysis IMO. In two year's time, the US market may be mostly HD sets wanting HD content and a single box solution, looking to XB360 or PS3, and also using those for their gaming interests, leaving the Wii in the kid's bedroom. Or maybe not.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I dont think consoles will take over the living room as a multimedia machine, atleast not this generation. The first problem is that the far majority of people buying dvd/hd/br players dont play games so stand alone players will always have by far the biggest market. Second I think consoles are far to limited in what they allow you to do. With a HTPC you can configure it however you want in terms of hardware and play just about any file format while with consoles you are limited to a handfull of formats at best and are limited in things like storage. The only thing they have going for them is TV content downloads but I dont think anyone would buy a ps3 or x360 for that, its a nice extra at best but not a reason for buying the console just as I dont think HD/BR will be the reason to buy a certain console for most people. I still think (HT)PC's will have the best shot at becoming the ''media hub'' in the living room. By default they will be able to play just about every file format (its a matter of time before BR or HD drives will be standard) or by installing a simple program like VLC, all you need is a tv out cable which will cost you like 15 bucks (most people already have a pc, so that isnt any extra cost) and with vista or xp media centre you can even use a remote to controll it and if you set up your tv as a second screen you can even use your pc to do browsing while others are watching a movie.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Nothing will do it, the entire idea that one box is going to replace the PC was, and always will be ridiculous.
From a pure usability standpoint, no box can replace the ease of convenience of a standalone PC, desk & chair, not to mention the massive advantage of having two seperate screens allowing concurrent use for multiple peope.
From a pure usability standpoint, no box can replace the ease of convenience of a standalone PC, desk & chair, not to mention the massive advantage of having two seperate screens allowing concurrent use for multiple peope.
I on the contrary beleive that consoles are close into becoming entertainment devices.
Price: Consoles despite playing games, are approaching the selling prices of media devices. A non-gamer who owns a device that can play games will practically pay too little or zero extra money for the extra feature. It is also much cheaper than owning a PC and you dont have to pass through the hassle of buying cables and extentions to connect yoru device to your TV.
User Friendliness: From personal experience with both 360 and especially the PS3, user friendliness is one great characteristic. You can easilly access your media. Even a kid.
More than just simple media features: Except from the game and movie/audio features, there are extra ones not common in other set top box devices laying under your TV. One such feature is visual and audio conversation from your TV. Then there is home that may appeal to younger ages
Stability
Updateability: Thts pretty self explanatory. The updates both consoles are recieveing are huge. Comparing how they were when they launched and how they are now there is a very noticable difference. They are getting very specific updates for controlling and viewing your media, and both of these consoles since are in an extremely competitive market, the companies are constantly in touch with the consumer, and improve the features based on a continuous stream of feedback.
Storage: This is a limiting factor but the console offerings are passing through various revisions. Both 360 and PS3 are released with bugger storages. PS3 also offers the ability to replace easilly your HDD with a bigger one.
Media support: media formats are added. PS3 and 360 getting DivX as an example. They are reaching a point were the consumer wont care much about an extra or two formats missing.
The total package+specific features and convenience of a console can cover other small inconveniences
edit: TV sets are also evolving increasing more the need of a convenient HD device under it. My TV although now is inappropriate for HD movies and audio, online surfing and chatting, games etc, I know that one day HDTVs will be pretty much standard and everyone will seek for a convenient HD device offering resolutions that previously only PC monitors could
Price: Consoles despite playing games, are approaching the selling prices of media devices. A non-gamer who owns a device that can play games will practically pay too little or zero extra money for the extra feature. It is also much cheaper than owning a PC and you dont have to pass through the hassle of buying cables and extentions to connect yoru device to your TV.
User Friendliness: From personal experience with both 360 and especially the PS3, user friendliness is one great characteristic. You can easilly access your media. Even a kid.
More than just simple media features: Except from the game and movie/audio features, there are extra ones not common in other set top box devices laying under your TV. One such feature is visual and audio conversation from your TV. Then there is home that may appeal to younger ages
Stability
Updateability: Thts pretty self explanatory. The updates both consoles are recieveing are huge. Comparing how they were when they launched and how they are now there is a very noticable difference. They are getting very specific updates for controlling and viewing your media, and both of these consoles since are in an extremely competitive market, the companies are constantly in touch with the consumer, and improve the features based on a continuous stream of feedback.
Storage: This is a limiting factor but the console offerings are passing through various revisions. Both 360 and PS3 are released with bugger storages. PS3 also offers the ability to replace easilly your HDD with a bigger one.
Media support: media formats are added. PS3 and 360 getting DivX as an example. They are reaching a point were the consumer wont care much about an extra or two formats missing.
The total package+specific features and convenience of a console can cover other small inconveniences
edit: TV sets are also evolving increasing more the need of a convenient HD device under it. My TV although now is inappropriate for HD movies and audio, online surfing and chatting, games etc, I know that one day HDTVs will be pretty much standard and everyone will seek for a convenient HD device offering resolutions that previously only PC monitors could
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Well they already are. You can rent full HD movies on 360 as we speak.
But, replace the PC entirely? That's a completely different issue, and a completely ridiculous idea IMO.
It's like saying Computers will replace Stereo's worldwide, simple cause they can play music. In reality, there are so many reasons why someone would prefer a standalone stereo that the very idea is just silly.
Hmm? I must have missed the part where someone said that
But that same reason to prefer a standalone stereo works for a standalone DVD player versus a PC, and a standalone media box rather than a media PC. PC's are faf and overcomplicated for most people's use. Yes, they are far more flexible, but most people don't need that. A box that plays your discs and download content, and interfaces with your portable devices, and lets you record TV and play games, without the complexity of a full blown OS with drivers, utilities, competing applications and the like, has a lot of appeal. From my experiences with these devices, PS3 is far better than an expensive Media PC in almost every way for my interests. A friend upgraded his MPC with the latest ATi GPU and DVD playback software, spending an extra £100 or so on noise reduction, and the result was far louder than PS3 and with a 'bug' in the software that means DVD's are rendered in naff-o-vision with red's banding and blocking to a horrific extent. This was apparently a change in the software as it was 'upgraded' for 'security reasons' so it has to use the GPU hardware and not a software renderer.
As a would-be owner of a media box, PC is too much effort. PS3 isn't perfect, but it's very close to the ideal solution for less techie folk, which is the majority of people out there. A properly developed system that does PVR and media playback of the major formats without needing a half dozen different boxes or a problematic PC is valid idea IMO. Sadly the creators of would-be solutions tend to go with overcomplicated too, resulting in hardware incompatibilities between TVs and players etc. Even a TV isn't just a TV any more, but has pages of options to worry about.
As a would-be owner of a media box, PC is too much effort. PS3 isn't perfect, but it's very close to the ideal solution for less techie folk, which is the majority of people out there. A properly developed system that does PVR and media playback of the major formats without needing a half dozen different boxes or a problematic PC is valid idea IMO. Sadly the creators of would-be solutions tend to go with overcomplicated too, resulting in hardware incompatibilities between TVs and players etc. Even a TV isn't just a TV any more, but has pages of options to worry about.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Look up about 4 posts in the Jack Tretton interview, he alludes to the very same idea.
scooby_dooby
Legend
If you're going to talk about the 'majority' of people, we're talking about a family, with children.
Any perspective that revolves around you, as the sole user, is totally irrelevant, since it's not reflective of the needs of most households.
You have anywhere form 4-5 potential users, and the idea of having a single screen for web usage, which is shared with the TV/Console, just would not work in most households today.
Sure, maybe PC's will be replaced by simpler PC's, but they won't be replaced by anything that plugs into your television, there's just too many drawbacks.
But you'd have the PC as well. Who's saying otherwise? You already have a PC and a TV and a stereo and a DVD player. Why do you think a media box in the living room is dependent on the removal of the household PC? No-one else is thinking that way! The PC stays where it's the workhorse system, and can still serve media functions to a second screen or whatever. The difference is rather than having a Media PC in the living room and a PC elsewhere, you'd have PC elsewhere and a Media Box in the living room that doesn't run Windows and is on fixed hardware with one set of software and zero complications (ha ha ha! AV products without complications...). Both can share data from a NAT if you want, or just over the network. The big difference is, just as to watch a DVD now most folk think to pop the disc in the player and away they go instead of using a PC, to access the majority of media they'll think to go through their CE media box rather than a PC. A box specifically targeted at the living room environment and the user who barely managed to learned to program their VCR who just wants a plug and play device.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Oh, I agree that the MediaPC is a dead end, and a console or another set top box will emerge as a much better solution, for multimedia functions only.
It won't be the PS3 or 360 though, their efforts aren't focused enough. Apple or Google will probably pull it off if anyone...
I thought he was talking strictly about general entertainment purposes. Which is far from replacing PCs completely
Consoles have a well-established place in the living room.
Now, DVRs are finding a place.
After analog TV transmissions are cut off, a lot of people will have to buy basic digital to analog converters, if they don't upgrade to HDTV. But the companies producing media devices don't care about those cheap consumers.
A game console, if it delivered DVR features, might have a chance. I think you need usability geared to the masses but you also need access to a lot of content.
So yeah, if consoles had CableCard or DBS tuners, maybe. But that just adds costs and a console-based DVR would be noisy and power-hungry and require a lot of upfront costs.
Well you can get DVRs for almost free so why bother?
Oh and while digital photography and to a lesser extent DIY digital video are popular pursuits, I don't think there's an overwhelming demand to view them on a TV. At least not yet.
Apple TV has the right interface but is lacking content above all. Needs easy video rentals of all Hollywood content, not just a couple of studios.
Now, DVRs are finding a place.
After analog TV transmissions are cut off, a lot of people will have to buy basic digital to analog converters, if they don't upgrade to HDTV. But the companies producing media devices don't care about those cheap consumers.
A game console, if it delivered DVR features, might have a chance. I think you need usability geared to the masses but you also need access to a lot of content.
So yeah, if consoles had CableCard or DBS tuners, maybe. But that just adds costs and a console-based DVR would be noisy and power-hungry and require a lot of upfront costs.
Well you can get DVRs for almost free so why bother?
Oh and while digital photography and to a lesser extent DIY digital video are popular pursuits, I don't think there's an overwhelming demand to view them on a TV. At least not yet.
Apple TV has the right interface but is lacking content above all. Needs easy video rentals of all Hollywood content, not just a couple of studios.
RE:X360 and PS3 as alternatives to a MediaPC
For my purposes, the X360 and PS3 are completely inadequate. Once you've used a properly configured HTPC you would be hard-pressed to accept the downgrade in functionality. My Movies alone puts the HTPC on a whole other level. It's certainly true that more effort is involved in the initial setup, but I think some would be surprised how maintenance-free these can be once you get past this. It fully integrates with the rest of my home theater including having specific support by Logitech Harmony remotes for controlling Vista's MC interface.
Really, the only missing piece for me is proper HDMI output (meaning video and LPCM audio over one cable).
For my purposes, the X360 and PS3 are completely inadequate. Once you've used a properly configured HTPC you would be hard-pressed to accept the downgrade in functionality. My Movies alone puts the HTPC on a whole other level. It's certainly true that more effort is involved in the initial setup, but I think some would be surprised how maintenance-free these can be once you get past this. It fully integrates with the rest of my home theater including having specific support by Logitech Harmony remotes for controlling Vista's MC interface.
Really, the only missing piece for me is proper HDMI output (meaning video and LPCM audio over one cable).
Noisy? You can barely hear my gaming machine at full load, let alone my HTPC...
HTPCs are nice, someone simply needs to package them preconfigured with a few of the customers predefined specifications and you'd have a winning package. You can build a freaking awesome HTPC these days for really cheap, talking $500 for a great system that will age very well thanks to the functions it does. So price isn't really that bad. It's just no one has a use most of the time. Besides DVR functionality few people have large enough movie collections, music, or want to use the other features at their TV. Give it a bit of time though, DVRs will slowly evolve into full fledged HTPCs.
HTPCs are nice, someone simply needs to package them preconfigured with a few of the customers predefined specifications and you'd have a winning package. You can build a freaking awesome HTPC these days for really cheap, talking $500 for a great system that will age very well thanks to the functions it does. So price isn't really that bad. It's just no one has a use most of the time. Besides DVR functionality few people have large enough movie collections, music, or want to use the other features at their TV. Give it a bit of time though, DVRs will slowly evolve into full fledged HTPCs.
But the standalones don't work as well. That's my point. And as I said it's only the initial setup that is more complex. In day to day operation the standalone presents no advantage in ease of use. But go ahead and cling to your preconceptions if you choose. And as for the Harmony being "some kind of master remote"...
You missed the point there. Any serious HT system benefits from a competent universal remote. The fact that the most popular one of these can be made to work with an HTPC running MCE as easily as it can be configured to control any of the other pieces of CE equipment your likely to find in a typical HT setup was what I was pointing out.This is almost totally wrong. A purpose-built HTPC is whisper quiet and with the power saving features built into every modern CPU and GPU is hardly a power hog. Cost is definitely a factor, but you also get increased functionality with that cost. Again I'll point to the easy example of the (free) My Movies plugin for MC. There simply is no functional equivalent on these STBs and there never will be. The closest thing thing in the CE space is the Kaleidescape system which aside from being several thousand dollars is also currently fighting off legal challenges from the DVDCCA.
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