South Park Loses Isaac Hayes

[3dilettante]

As far as christian churches go, it is mandatory to pay 10% of your pre-tax income in Tithes. That's a pretty hefty chunk of change, particularly when you consider that there are millions of christians in this country who tithe.

I'm sure if you looked at Christianity as a corporation, it'd be, by far, the richest company in the world many times over.

I've noticed this tithing requirement isn't consistently implemented across denominations and between churches. At least that's how it looked from the ones I've run across.

As for denominations being corporations, it really depends. I think the Catholic church does pretty well, especially with its self-funded convention centers and golf courses. (Actually, I think these might generate income in some cases.)

If one considers the primary Mormon denomination christian, then LDS is wildly wealthy. They encourage a bit more than 10%, I think.

 

[Natoma]

I think you would be surpised to find you are incorrect

Bah! The Catholic Church's real estate alone is worth tens of billions. And that's not even counting tithing, conventions, charity drives, etc.

 

[Natoma]

I've noticed this tithing requirement isn't consistently implemented across denominations and between churches. At least that's how it looked from the ones I've run across.

As for denominations being corporations, it really depends. I think the Catholic church does pretty well, especially with its self-funded convention centers and golf courses. (Actually, I think these might generate income in some cases.)

If one considers the primary Mormon denomination christian, then LDS is wildly wealthy. They encourage a bit more than 10%, I think.

Any religion that recognizes and follows the New Testament is considered "Christian". Within Christianity, there are two major denominations, i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism. All of the sub-denominations that one typically hears about (Southern Baptists, Mormons, Pentecostals, etc) are all protestant.

 

[KimB]

As far as christian churches go, it is mandatory to pay 10% of your pre-tax income in Tithes.

Not in the least. Few churches claim that this is a mandatory requirement of membership, and none my family has been involved with. Of course, the minister would periodically give sermons on how it's good to give, but there was never any ostricizing of any members due to amount given. It wasn't even considered.

(I've been involved with Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist and "non-denominational" churches)

Though, of course, the Mormons apparently ask for actual tithing, I still think there's a world of difference between this and what the scientologists do. The scientologists get their members addicted to auditing, which in turn costs them thousands and thousands of dollars, and likely much more than 10% in many cases.

I'm sure if you looked at Christianity as a corporation, it'd be, by far, the richest company in the world many times over.

Once again, you'd need to consider it as a question of scale. How many scientologists are there? And yet they're building towers and yachts? I mean, come on! The most expensive things most christian denominations build these days are schools. Sure, all combined it probably adds up to quite a lot of money, but there's quite a lot of believers.

 

[KimB]

Any religion that recognizes and follows the New Testament is considered "Christian". Within Christianity, there are two major denominations, i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism. All of the sub-denominations that one typically hears about (Southern Baptists, Mormons, Pentecostals, etc) are all protestant.

Few non-Mormons consider Mormons to be Christian (as they believe in an entirely separate book of scripture as primary).

 

[Natoma]

Not in the least. Few churches claim that this is a mandatory requirement of membership, and none my family has been involved with. Of course, the minister would periodically give sermons on how it's good to give, but there was never any ostricizing of any members due to amount given. It wasn't even considered.

(I've been involved with Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist and "non-denominational" churches)

Though, of course, the Mormons apparently ask for actual tithing, I still think there's a world of difference between this and what the scientologists do. The scientologists get their members addicted to auditing, which in turn costs them thousands and thousands of dollars, and likely much more than 10% in many cases.

I should've put mandatory in quotes. Obviously they can't force you to pay up or else they would lose too many members. But I've been in enough churches of all denominations to know that while they don't hold a gun to your head, they certainly preach on the "goodness" of giving enough to make it seem like more than just a friendly nudge in the direction of the collection plate.

Considering tithing is the primary revenue stream of churches, it's not something that churches treat lightly.

Once again, you'd need to consider it as a question of scale. How many scientologists are there? And yet they're building towers and yachts? I mean, come on! The most expensive things most christian denominations build these days are schools. Sure, all combined it probably adds up to quite a lot of money, but there's quite a lot of believers.

That's why you generally see scientologists targeting only the "super rich". You don't need to go out and proselytize when you're dealing with only those who can provide huge sums of money.

As for building towers and yachts, et al. Have you not seen the holdings of the Catholic church? Or seen the myriad of beautiful cathedrals built by the Presbyterians? Not to mention the churches built by smaller congregations.

Hell, my church was very small. Roughly 50 adults. Within 2 years we came up with $300,000 to build a whole new church, and that was a completely separate drive from the normal tithing that was collected, as well as "other" collection plates.

I'd daresay that the people in the church I grew up in were faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from rich. Decidedly middle class, and some even poor, is more like it.

 

[Natoma]

Few non-Mormons consider Mormons to be Christian (as they believe in an entirely separate book of scripture as primary).

If they follow the new testament that's all the requirement to be called a christian. Catholics and Protestants, for example, believe in completely different things, but they are still both christians. And then there are all the subdenominations within protestantism that take the split even further.

Now, if Mormons don't follow the bible, but their own book, and they only "recognize" the bible, then that's another thing. Muslims for example recognize the Bible, but they follow the Qu'ran. If that's the relationship you're referring to with respect to Mormons, then I'd agree with you.

 

[Sxotty]

Natoma, the reason I said what I said had more to do with the numbers. Think about how many muslims there are in the world, and if you are abritrarily making conglomerates of things one could do that with any group. I don't know the actual numbers but I am not prepared to say one way or the other.

Muslims believe in giving a certain portion as well, but it does not have to be to a church it can be to "the poor"

As to who is christian, well it is an abitrary definition, people change it to suit what they desire. Mormons believe in christ, that is to say they believe he died for their sins.

Muslims supposedly believe in Christ in that he existed, and was a prophet but do not believe he died for sins, or was divine and what have you.

Anyway that scientology thing was pretty razy the rolling stone one that is. I never really understood it and I can't say I do now either

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

Chef returns! they should release a re-mix version of his pre-recorded vocals as a rap song.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Chef returns! they should release a re-mix version of his pre-recorded vocals as a rap song.

Yeah, I can't wait to see that one tomorrow!

 

[soylent]

How come scientology is successfull?
How come people don't realize they're being brainwashed?

A big reason is that they will attempt to silence anyone leaving the cult(often through litigation). So the members often know LESS about important details of scientology than outsiders.

They settled with Lawrence Wollersheim after 15 years of litigation and were forced to pay ~8 million dollars for nearly driving him to the brink of suicide while he was inside the cult(he had to go nearly 1 million dollars into debt to afford the legal fees). They love to play the corporate shell game as well as counter sue etc. to try and win by sheer exhaustion whenever they themselves come under fire.

From the beginning members are being lied to about what scientology really is. It's usually introduced as some sort of alternative to psychology or self-improvement seminar BS. When people have already spent 10 000$ or whatever they are reluctant to realize that it's BS and leave(and they will be harassed by members if they do so). At the higher levels questioning scientology pretty much means you have to go through thousands of dollars of "auditing". "Religious" experiences can be quite powerful, but they shouldn't be taken as a proof of the faith as they are merely self-induced. Unfortunately they ARE taken as such.

They organise their brainwashed member drones to protest, talk trash about people on the internet, try to shut down anti-scientology sites etc. (They've had great troubles trying to silence the internet because if you get someone shut down by their host through threats of litigation or whatever, 100 other people go "hey you can't do that!" and support their cause).

 

[KimB]

"Religious" experiences can be quite powerful, but they shouldn't be taken as a proof of the faith as they are merely self-induced. Unfortunately they ARE taken as such.

Of course, this is true of any religion, not just scientology.

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

Yeah, I can't wait to see that one tomorrow!

Well make sure you let us know if it was any good. I will have to wait for a couple of months.

 

[RussSchultz]

Have you actually watched the show much Russ? South Park ≠ "highbrow".

Umm....have you ACTUALLY watched the show?

Beyond the fart jokes, and infantile humor is very witty and intelligent social commentary.

Dogging on your former colleague who doesn't agree with you is just lame.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Umm....have you ACTUALLY watched the show?

Beyond the fart jokes, and infantile humor is very witty and intelligent social commentary.

Dogging on your former colleague who doesn't agree with you is just lame.

No it ain't, because as funny/witty/intelligent as South Park is it also is NOT "highbrow humor".

 

[rashly]

Umm....have you ACTUALLY watched the show?

Beyond the fart jokes, and infantile humor is very witty and intelligent social commentary.

Dogging on your former colleague who doesn't agree with you is just lame.

They called him out on his hypocrisy. They've made fun of Jesus and Jews countless times, but they make an episode about /his/ religion and he gets pissed. They did a very similar episode to the scientology one when it came to Mormons where they basically discredited the religion. They call Jesus a pussy and had an episode where the pope was actually a giant spider or something and where preists were appauled that another priest was not molesting children. Almost every bit of dialog from Cartmen to Kyle is a Jew joke.

South Park is great because it doesn't pull any punches. George Clooney was on a few episodes and then they ripped him in Team America.

Honestly, I would be dissapointed if they didn't rip on Hayes for leaving. I think most fans would be too. That's been the premise of the show for a while now... no one is safe, including themselves or their own fans.


I can't wait to see the show tonight. All of Chef's dialog is going to be from previously recorded shows.

 

[_xxx_]

What's the fuss about, they may just as well get someone else for doing Chef's voice, or not?

 

[Sxotty]

South park does pull punches, but it is still pretty funny. I am definitely with Digi though it is not high brow humor. There is witty social comentary, but it is not nearly as nifty in that regard as many seem to think. Don't get me wrong it is vastly entertaining, but it's arguments are often riddled with holes that the southpark faithful seem unable to see.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Looks like I was wrong, they took the high road and handled it tastefully.

 

[Moloch]

A big reason is that they will attempt to silence anyone leaving the cult(often through litigation). So the members often know LESS about important details of scientology than outsiders.

They settled with Lawrence Wollersheim after 15 years of litigation and were forced to pay ~8 million dollars for nearly driving him to the brink of suicide while he was inside the cult(he had to go nearly 1 million dollars into debt to afford the legal fees). They love to play the corporate shell game as well as counter sue etc. to try and win by sheer exhaustion whenever they themselves come under fire.

From the beginning members are being lied to about what scientology really is. It's usually introduced as some sort of alternative to psychology or self-improvement seminar BS. When people have already spent 10 000$ or whatever they are reluctant to realize that it's BS and leave(and they will be harassed by members if they do so). At the higher levels questioning scientology pretty much means you have to go through thousands of dollars of "auditing". "Religious" experiences can be quite powerful, but they shouldn't be taken as a proof of the faith as they are merely self-induced. Unfortunately they ARE taken as such.

They organise their brainwashed member drones to protest, talk trash about people on the internet, try to shut down anti-scientology sites etc. (They've had great troubles trying to silence the internet because if you get someone shut down by their host through threats of litigation or whatever, 100 other people go "hey you can't do that!" and support their cause).

Interesting.