Sony Financial Results, FY to 31-Mar-09

[zed]

actually sony have made bugger all from the ps family 3billion when u consider they have been the leading brand for the last decade

SONY total $3,373,485,174
-$126,213,498
$670,917,654
$1,240,457,088
$1,363,484,268
$852,616,750
-$555,754,896
$783,695,997
$1,063,613,299
$671,346,883
$438,555,396
$81,290,790
-$2,028,476,040
-$1,082,048,517

NINTENDO total $30,304,561,500
$46,596,272
$210,765,368
$179,391,326
$144,956,422
$163,939,499
$437,253,573
$564,868,656
$661,196,572
$827,288,834
$726,336,460
$1,531,838,380
$1,675,368,918
$1,880,345,913
$1,376,286,454
$1,330,433,496
$1,015,850,619
$765,512,985
$1,355,203,824
$1,560,823,573
$1,607,265,969
$920,825,784
$1,126,191,421
$945,282,980
$1,069,765,995
$1,132,929,693
$839,568,082
$1,973,460,748
$4,235,013,684

MICROSOFT total -$10,266,000,000
$1,340,700,000
-$1,999,200,000
-$1,021,880,000
-$1,078,700,000
-$1,132,320,000
-$505,760,000
-$1,395,450,000
-$2,056,320,000
$264,330,000

numbers from the companies financial reports each year

 

[tirminyl]

zed, can you put a starting year with those totals?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Ouch, those MS numbers are tragic. Are they for the games division alone? Aren't those Sony numbers for the whole company?

I'm not sure we can take the quoted loss per console as a counter argument to an imminent price cut. It may very well be true of the current model, but if the redesign rumors are true there could be a much cheaper version in process. They could easily transition to flash memory, an external power source and reduce the overall cooling system and case costs.

 

[Squilliam]

Ouch, those MS numbers are tragic. Are they for the games division alone? Aren't those Sony numbers for the whole company?

I'm not sure we can take the quoted loss per console as a counter argument to an imminent price cut. It may very well be true of the current model, but if the redesign rumors are true there could be a much cheaper version in process. They could easily transition to flash memory, an external power source and reduce the overall cooling system and case costs.

Actually they are for EDD which means Windows Mobile, Zune, Surface, other random R+D, sales of Windows/Office to retail/Mac versions of their software. The Sony numbers are just from SCE, the company itself lost another 1.25B on top of those losses.

I think Microsoft stated last year that they broke even with the $200 Arcades on accessories, im not sure what that means exactly but I suspect they make a lot more money on the Xbox 360 than those numbers suggest.

 

[Rangers]

SONY total $3,373,485,174
-$126,213,498
$670,917,654
$1,240,457,088
$1,363,484,268
$852,616,750
-$555,754,896
$783,695,997
$1,063,613,299
$671,346,883
$438,555,396
$81,290,790
-$2,028,476,040
-$1,082,048,517

So where do people get the "Sony lost 4.2B in gaming since PS3" figure? Those numbers only show 3B of losses, with 81m profit the year prior.

Also I thought Sony gaming lost 600m this past fiscal year (09)?

Edit: The only way I can remotely make it work is if the last year's 600m losses isnt in those figures, and they lost about 600m the last 2 Q's of the year they show 81M profit. Then you can reach 4.2B in losses.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So where do people get the "Sony lost 4.2B in gaming since PS3" figure? Those numbers only show 3B of losses, with 81m profit the year prior.

Also I thought Sony gaming lost 600m this past fiscal year (09)?

Edit: The only way I can remotely make it work is if the last year's 600m losses isnt in those figures, and they lost about 600m the last 2 Q's of the year they show 81M profit. Then you can reach 4.2B in losses.

Those numbers for Sony also include the PS2 and PSP as examples. Both of which I "think" are profitable still. So they are helping to defray the losses from PS3.

[edit] Nevermind, just realized you said "in gaming" and not just PS3 related losses.

However, with no years attached to those numbers, it's sorta hard to tell what's going on and whether that includes FY2008.

Regards,
SB

 

[zed]

>>Also I thought Sony gaming lost 600m this past fiscal year (09)?

yes I didnt include 2009 since MS havent released their data (also dollars are in current dollars)
so its 2008,2007 etc
sony 2009 -$597, 2009 nintendo ~+5,500billion (gah just shows you if u want to make cash be conservative)
also missed a negative sign off the first MS number

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Unfortunately with Microsoft's fiscal reports you can't really deduce anything with regards to their console efforts as there's so much other stuff included in that number that are totally unrelated to consoles or even gaming.

Regards,
SB

 

[Rangers]

And as I understand it this is the last Sony report that will have a dedicated gaming division as well.

 

[one]

And as I understand it this is the last Sony report that will have a dedicated gaming division as well.

Why? I've seen no such indication.

 

[mrcorbo]

Why? I've seen no such indication.

The Board of Directors has endorsed a reorganization of the Company naming Mr. Stringer as President of Sony Corporation in addition to his current responsibilities of Chairman and CEO. Working with his newly appointed electronics leadership team, he will directly oversee the electronics business to enable faster implementation of his strategic direction.
At the heart of the reorganization is the formation of two new business groups:

• The Networked Products & Services Group will include Sony Computer Entertainment ("SCE"); personal computers (VAIO); new mobile products, including the current WALKMAN lines; and Sony Media Software and Services, which develops a common service platform across Sony products. The mandate of the group is to maximize the potential and pace of Sony's innovation and to enhance profitability in networked products and services. The group also plans to incubate new products leveraging Sony's best technologies. Integral to this process is the utilization and expansion of the PlayStation Network service platform, which currently has 20 million registered accounts globally.
• Leading the Networked Products & Services Group will be Kazuo Hirai, who will become Executive Vice President of Sony Corporation and President of this group. He will also continue in his current role as President and Group CEO of SCE. Kunimasa Suzuki, currently President of the Consumer of America Group of Sony Electronics in the U.S., will become Senior Vice President of Sony Corporation and Deputy President of this group. Within this group, Mr. Suzuki will lead the new home and mobile business incubation project to create new products that utilize the best technologies from across the Company, as well as the VAIO Business Group.

Source

 

[ShadowRunner]

So where do people get the "Sony lost 4.2B in gaming since PS3" figure? Those numbers only show 3B of losses, with 81m profit the year prior.

Also I thought Sony gaming lost 600m this past fiscal year (09)?

Edit: The only way I can remotely make it work is if the last year's 600m losses isnt in those figures, and they lost about 600m the last 2 Q's of the year they show 81M profit. Then you can reach 4.2B in losses.

I was also under the impression that the losses from PS3 had wiped out most of the profit made in the previous 2 generations, which isnt the case at all. Im not sure why i had that impression but im sure it had been stated a few times.

 

[Carl B]

I was also under the impression that the losses from PS3 had wiped out most of the profit made in the previous 2 generations, which isnt the case at all. Im not sure why i had that impression but im sure it had been stated a few times.

Oh it's wiped out plenty of those previous gen gains - just search other financial threads and you'll find my running tally of the gaming division!

 

[deepbrown]

Oh it's wiped out plenty of those previous gen gains - just search other financial threads and you'll find my running tally of the gaming division!

Isn't it true that this fiscal-years losses were not nearly as bad as expected due to PS3 software sales (up 80%) and reduced hardware costs?

 

[Carl B]

Isn't it true that this fiscal-years losses were not nearly as bad as expected due to PS3 software sales (up 80%) and reduced hardware costs?

Honestly (as probably obvious) I haven't had a chance to really look at anything yet - I've just been too slammed with real-world work these past few weeks to give the attention I'd like to a financials release. Normally I'd be all up in here by post #3!

For my part I don't think the gaming division is performing badly at all right now from many perspectives, so I'm not trying to color it in present terms. I'm just echoing that the costs to bring PS3 online this gen definitely did turn back the dial on divisional total earnings since Playstation's inception. It just is what it is though. Ultimately it doesn't seem as bad today as it would have one year ago simply because now every company is losing billions on everything. Yes, MS as a whole is still profitable and Nintendo's business as well, but contextually any losses in PS in the immediate term begin to shrink in importance next to the growing problem in electronics in general as far as Sony internal dynamics.

 

[dobwal]

Honestly (as probably obvious) I haven't had a chance to really look at anything yet - I've just been too slammed with real-world work these past few weeks to give the attention I'd like to a financials release. Normally I'd be all up in here by post #3!

For my part I don't think the gaming division is performing badly at all right now from many perspectives, so I'm not trying to color it in present terms. I'm just echoing that the costs to bring PS3 online this gen definitely did turn back the dial on divisional total earnings since Playstation's inception. It just is what it is though. Ultimately it doesn't seem as bad today as it would have one year ago simply because now every company is losing billions on everything. Yes, MS as a whole is still profitable and Nintendo's business as well, but contextually any losses in PS in the immediate term begin to shrink in importance next to the growing problem in electronics in general as far as Sony internal dynamics.

From what perspectives are you talking about, because from most point of views especially Sony's, the Game division's performance is very dismal. We all know that the electronics divsion is the biggest and most important division within Sony and thats because its a huge revenue generator. Generating anywhere from 5-10X more than anyother division. But in terms of profit generation, the game division, since its inception of the PS2, has rivaled the electronics divison for the most important division within Sony.

Since fiscal year 2000, the electronics division has generated roughly ~790 bln yen in profits while the Game division has cost Sony ~ -150 bln yen in losses. Yet the game division has recorded more profits than the electronics division in 6 of the last 9 fiscal years. How can the electronics division record ~1 trillion yen more in profits than the game division when the game division has beaten the electronics division in 6 of the last 9 fiscal years? Its due to the fact that the game division has lost about 460 billion yen in the last three years while the electronics division has generated about 430 billion yen in profits.

What has to be so disappointing to Sony is that while the Game division is seeing huge losses its doing so while recording record revenue. The last three years have all broken the 1 trillion yen mark in revenue, which happened just 1 time prior, which was during the previous recession of 2001 where Sony saw 82 billion yen in profits from the gaming division.

Minus the fy 2007 and 2006, overall Sony' electronic's division has been faltering this last decade and it was the gaming division that Sony depended on. Now that the game division is faltering along with the electronics division, Sony has not only has to deal with its top two divisions underperforming but the faltering of a division that tend to be one of most recession proof within the company.

 

[Carl B]

Dobwal when I say "right now" I'm not saying the past three years. I'm first in line to point out the blood the PS3 has cost Sony from a macro perspective; I think I do so at least once a quarter.

When I say "now," I'm referring to present operational costs and paths out of the wilderness as livable compared to the recent years past, which were essentially a tunnel without light at the end of it. Now there is light. And now there is also a change in the divisions which are perceived to have red alerts flashing above their doors.

Anyway, that Sony depended on their gaming business so heavily before is neither here nor there IMO; if anything it allowed those broken cultures and businesses to remain static for too long with the crutch of profit generators elsewhere. Ironically it may have been best if the gaming division itself experienced greater headwinds during the PS2 era, as it would have led to a next-gen strategy that would perhaps have been more conservative in scope. As for record revenues... well that's a red herring in my opinion because the record revenues are due partly just to the straightforward sticker price of the PS3 itself. That high price leads to high revenues, but it is itself the enemy; Sony would much rather have lower revenues and higher profits in this case, and I don't think anyone is bragging about the revenue number at Sony for any other reason than because it is a growing number that has a positive association to it.

 

[Teasy]

Last quarter they sold 2.13m PSPs. In the same quarter, Apple sold 7M iphone/itouches, with 1000's of games (many crap, but some really quite good) available from the app store. Sony and others are right to be worried about the Apple gaming threat.

Thousands available? Right but how many were sold and for how much per game on average?

The iPhone is a threat to the PSP the same way the PopCap games are a threat to HD consoles.

But the PopCap games are a threat to Wii?

 

[dobwal]

Dobwal when I say "right now" I'm not saying the past three years. I'm first in line to point out the blood the PS3 has cost Sony from a macro perspective; I think I do so at least once a quarter. .

My bad. But even within the scope of right now the the game division performance is still bad as turnarounds tend to happen with the release of new hardware. The problems that exist with the PS3 hardware in terms of profitability will probably persist throughout the life of the hardware as pricing pressures will remain.

 

[Carl B]

No doubt; the PS3 will forever be a net loss situation for them on the whole, and likely not profitable forward-moving until a couple of quarters/years out from now. Lord knows what it's internalized losses will have amounted to by then. But at least the division itself is out of panic mode and can focus on day to day business, as well as hopefully future products and brighter tomorrows.