Sony delays PS3 to 2006, concentrates on PSP !?

[chaphack]

Why phil why must you make me hit that reply button again?

1)DOA3 vs Soul Calibur 2, frickit! Xport Soul Calibur2 vs Ps2 groundup Soul Calibur2. Why make it sound that all impressive Xgames are not 60fps? There are many impressive Xgames running at 60fps. Or do you lack the true playtime of Xgames? PDO rapes just about any PS2 games. Dont give me that onrails thing since i can bring up ZOE2 = limited size arena or even SH3 = limited view area, both are not even a cool stable 60fps. I guess both are disgusting too! KIN vs Halo2! KIN vs Halo2! KIN vs Halo2! Cant wait!

2)So whose words should i take? hmm hmm hmm, london-boy, whose name was specifically brought up by you(thus it is relevant)? I mean, both you and london-boy, whose name was specifically brought up by you(thus it is relevant) , pretty much disagrees too. So i guess its not me only.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I think it is clear that Chap mostly plays leaked, illegal copies of PS2 games, that are not necessarily even final versions of the games.
That would explain his skewed views of for example Jak & daxter's 'tearing' and 'slowdowns'.

True, in J&D there is a very very minor hiccup in framerate, but it very very rare. You can see it sometimes in the beginning village, and it only lasts a second or two. You hardly notice it if you are not looking for it, and it certainly doesn't affect gameplay.
And it is not nearly as annoying as for example Halo's dips in framerate.

 

[chaphack]

rabitrabit,

it is true that JD has MUCH better fps than Halo, no one is arguing against that but the point is not there. The point was JD IQ is far from perfect. The fps does stutters during heavy scenes, like the arena battle with those purple bugbear or something, and at times the game has to drop to half height display to keep up the fps.

 

[darkblu]

All I'm saying is that calling Chap on evasion was false, because he had a point - very few PS2 games support 480p correctly... and its 'hack' VGA adapter which allows 480p doesn't work anywhere near as well as DC's 'hack' VGA adapter does. Whether or not this means DC is a better system is completely irrelevant to me, though. PS2 gets the nod IMO because it does technically support 480p natively, which DC doesn't... and PS2's CPU is like the 100-ton wrecking ball to DC's CPU jackhammer...

Tag,

DC's vga 'adapter' was not a hack. DC has VGA signals output right on the AV connector, so the so called 'adapter' was nothing more than buffering capacitors and a sync driver (as can be seen here) - surely nothing comparable to a (decent) line doubler!

as about DC not supporting progressive - i'm a bit at a loss on what makes you think so.

 

[Fafalada]

The fps does stutters during heavy scenes, like the arena battle with those purple bugbear or something, and at times the game has to drop to half height display to keep up the fps.

JD runs with halfheight front buffer, so the resolution drops when/if framerate drops. There is no "drop res to keep FPS up" thing.

 

[rabidrabbit]

You sure you don't have a badly burned copy of the game?
J&D streams a lot of data constantly, and I can imagine those problems you mentioned could be caused by a cheap blank dvd the game was burned.

For I don't remember the game ever dropping to half height display, nor any major frame rate flucyuoations during heavy battle scenes :?

 

[chaphack]

faf
hey you are the techie here not me! i am just speaking up for the Xbox in this place. Needs more Xbox love imo.

rabitrabit
i dont have a dvd burner....

so i did order SH3 dvd off some other forum, but hey its for the much hyped graphics, the graphics-whorism if you will, i couldnt resist. nothing else.

i mean, i admit to downloading a few other ps2/xbox cdrips(mostly rare or beta titles), but again, those are for the graphics, not for the games. even so, i restrict myself to only a few of those, since i have heard many problem stories about ps2 and cd games. i try to rent most of the time. hellya, i am sure many of you have done the same with emulators and roms too. so lets just keep it as that.

 

[maskrider]

faf
hey you are the techie here not me! i am just speaking up for the Xbox in this place. Needs more Xbox love imo.

X-BOX love is not equal to constant Sony bashing. Need more love on X-BOX is not equal to constantly spread your Sony hate.

Repeating something over and over again doesn't make something more right, it will just cause more annoyance.

 

[London Geezer]

STILL GOING ON....

anyway, i'll reply to Tag since i've got nothing better to do...

i've never said PS2 has 480P by default.... have i? if i did, then it's quite clear that is not what i intended... i made it clear on this thread and on the *official* Blaze VGA Adapter thread that the thing only works with certain titles. still those certain titles are more than the 0 titles with pro-scan on Xbox and GC here in europe. Chap made the point that Pro-scan enabled console are somewhat more powerful than the ones without pro-scan. which we know it is not true. pro-scan is a feature the manufacturers-developers DECIDE to include or not. that would also mean that the US-JAP XBOX is *MORE POWERFUL* than EU XBOX because it has pro-scan. which is ridiculous...

the thing about this argument is that if someone says PS2 is not 100% superior in ALL areas to DC, then someone can turn around and say that the Xbox is also not 100% superior in ALL areas....
at the end of the day it's all nitpicking really. the most important thing is how the games look. if most PS2 games look MUCH better than DC games than it's safe to say that PS2 is superior to DC. the fact that it has to resort to multitexturing to achieve sharp looking surfaces doesn't mean anything, the game still looks better.
at the same time, someone could say that most Xbox games look superior to PS2 games (arguable, especially the MOST bit), therefore it is safe to say that xbox is superior to PS2. the fact that PS2 has more fillrate and bandwidth and whatever does not mean anything, Xbox games like Halo2 still look much superior to most games on PS2.

than, if u like one game better than the other, it's all subjective really, i PERSONALLY like SH3 graphics more than anything else i have ever seen. same for ZOE2.
happy chap? this is as diplomatic as i get...

 

[chaphack]

Hail diplomacy! Okay everyone(including me chappers), from now on, lets all be more restrained, try not to jump into every hypewagon or proclaim something over something without looking at both things!

I dont hate my ps2, l treat my ps2 like any other guy on the streets. Ps2 is fine, i just cringed when i see the way sony goes about with their business. I might sound harsh at times, but certain things just irked me. That is just me though. Okay then, i will not take needless jabs at Sony from now on, unless of course, something tickles me again!

btw london-boy, displaying 480p does take up more space than 480i, so i would say hardware matters.

~signing off chap...

 

[London Geezer]

Hail diplomacy! Okay everyone(including me chappers), from now on, lets all be more restrained, try not to jump into every hypewagon or proclaim something over something without looking at both things!

I dont hate my ps2, l treat my ps2 like any other guy on the streets. Ps2 is fine, i just cringed when i see the way sony goes about with their business. I might sound harsh at times, but certain things just irked me. That is just me though. Okay then, i will not take needless jabs at Sony from now on, unless of course, something tickles me again!

btw london-boy, displaying 480p does take up more space than 480i, so i would say hardware matters.

~signing off chap...

1) which means things will stay the same in the chap-trolling front.
2) 480p only takes more resources than 480i when 480i is calculated in half frame buffers, which doesn't happen very often these days...
3) hoping for a rehab Chap
4) cant believe that my last post kinda worked....

 

[Nick Laslett]

9)480p is NOT a ps2 standard, early libraries or not. I ask of you, what do you think of MGS3, KIN, Megaman7 GTA4, True Crimes, TMNT, SSX3, GT4, Castlevania, Ice Nine etc. Random future games, tell me what you think of true 480p support for them? Go on make a statement and we shall see where that goes in the future.

Call me naive, but I think a lot of future PS2 released will be prog scan enabled. Looking at the titles you list, I would expect at least half of them to be prog scan. Certainly Kin aka Kill Zone (Sony game), Gran Turismo 4 and Ghost Hunter (Primal was prog scan out of box).

All Renderware releases can be prog scan as the code is already in the middleware. Using the Blaze adaptor on renderware games demonstrates this. Burnout 2 of course was already prog scan out of the box. So GTA3 and Vice City are prog scan with the hack and I would expect GTA4 to be out of the box.

MGS2 is already prog scan using the Blaze adaptor, in fact the game looks exception in this mode. I would expect this to be available out of the box for MGS3.

The guys at EA Big seem to be good at utilising the PS2 hardware. SSX used procedural rendering. SO I again hope that prog scan will be available out of the box with this game.

I expect JakII to be prog scan out of the box. Again this is a Sony published game and Naughty Dog love to show how technically competent they are.

Baldurs Gate 2 will be prog scan, like it's predessor, but you might need to use the hack.

Lets see in a years time how Sony have fared in getting more games to use progressive scan. I think on the titles that matter they will make some success. Unfortunately there are too many titles released for the PS2 for this to ever be a majority figure.

As for Soul Calibur 2, is that not prog scan out of the box like Tekken 4? Not out in the UK yet so I don't know.

 

[London Geezer]

even if every single game released from now on supported Proscan, they will never constitute a majority since too many titles ahve been already released...

so GTA games work fine with the adapter... good to know....is it full frame or do u get those weird things like on some other games? i mean, with MGS2 and other games i get part of the image repeated on the right handside of the screen... still, the full bit looks great, not too different from normal though... Tekken4 looks absolutely amazing in pro-scan, the difference is like night and day... same for The getaway and GGX2

 

[Fafalada]

btw london-boy, displaying 480p does take up more space than 480i, so i would say hardware matters.

When a game is already running full frame internally it doesn't - it's just a matter of switching CRT scanning mode - which is what Blaze does when the switch wasn't included within the game itself.

As for Soul Calibur 2, is that not prog scan out of the box like Tekken 4?

It's out of the box.

 

[Tagrineth]

Tag,

DC's vga 'adapter' was not a hack. DC has VGA signals output right on the AV connector, so the so called 'adapter' was nothing more than buffering capacitors and a sync driver (as can be seen here) - surely nothing comparable to a (decent) line doubler!

as about DC not supporting progressive - i'm a bit at a loss on what makes you think so.

That's why I put hack in quote marks.

Are there DC Component video cables?

 

[darkblu]

Tag,

DC's vga 'adapter' was not a hack. DC has VGA signals output right on the AV connector, so the so called 'adapter' was nothing more than buffering capacitors and a sync driver (as can be seen here) - surely nothing comparable to a (decent) line doubler!

as about DC not supporting progressive - i'm a bit at a loss on what makes you think so.

That's why I put hack in quote marks.

Are there DC Component video cables?

the scart one is component. haven't heard of any other DC component cables. i personally am perfecly set with output from the s-video one - max crisp image on a decent tv set. and i'm absolutely positive that on a friend's tv set SC runs _without_ a flicker filter via the s-video. btw, can s-video theoretically output progressive?

 

[maskrider]

the scart one is component. haven't heard of any other DC component cables. i personally am perfecly set with output from the s-video one - max crisp image on a decent tv set. and i'm absolutely positive that on a friend's tv set SC runs _without_ a flicker filter via the s-video. btw, can s-video theoretically output progressive?

The S-Video interface is simply a 2 signal channels (luma and chroma) interface, but you can only find video encoders/decoders for interlaced SDTV with S-Video interface as the interface is designed to be used in interlaced SDTV devices. Theoretically, transmitting more than interlaced signal will require a higher bandwidth media (higher cable and connector spec).

 

[darkblu]

the scart one is component. haven't heard of any other DC component cables. i personally am perfecly set with output from the s-video one - max crisp image on a decent tv set. and i'm absolutely positive that on a friend's tv set SC runs _without_ a flicker filter via the s-video. btw, can s-video theoretically output progressive?

The S-Video interface is simply a 2 signal channels (luma and chroma) interface, but you can only find video encoders/decoders for interlaced SDTV with S-Video interface as the interface is designed to be used in interlaced SDTV devices. Theoretically, transmitting more than interlaced signal will require a higher bandwidth media (higher cable and connector spec).

thanks, maskrider, although i'm more or less aware of s-video composition. honestly, i don't really see a problem with the bandwidth - nothing a semi-decently shielded (possibly twisted) copper cable woudln't be able to cope with. k, i admit the s-video cable i have for my DC is rather bleak (not the original but a 3rd party one) and hardly qualifies as 'semi-decently shielded'. but for the record, i've seen VGA-switch boxes of so poor quality still capable to sustain 800x600 @75 (progressive, fcourse).

 

[zurich]

the scart one is component. haven't heard of any other DC component cables. i personally am perfecly set with output from the s-video one - max crisp image on a decent tv set. and i'm absolutely positive that on a friend's tv set SC runs _without_ a flicker filter via the s-video. btw, can s-video theoretically output progressive?

The S-Video interface is simply a 2 signal channels (luma and chroma) interface, but you can only find video encoders/decoders for interlaced SDTV with S-Video interface as the interface is designed to be used in interlaced SDTV devices. Theoretically, transmitting more than interlaced signal will require a higher bandwidth media (higher cable and connector spec).

thanks, maskrider, although i'm more or less aware of s-video composition. honestly, i don't really see a problem with the bandwidth - nothing a semi-decently shielded (possibly twisted) copper cable woudln't be able to cope with. k, i admit the s-video cable i have for my DC is rather bleak (not the original but a 3rd party one) and hardly qualifies as 'semi-decently shielded'. but for the record, i've seen VGA-switch boxes of so poor quality still capable to sustain 800x600 @75 (progressive, fcourse).

But isn't s-video like 4 pins? VGA is ~9 or so? Dunno if that actually matters, but its a difference nonetheless

 

[maskrider]

The S-Video interface is simply a 2 signal channels (luma and chroma) interface, but you can only find video encoders/decoders for interlaced SDTV with S-Video interface as the interface is designed to be used in interlaced SDTV devices. Theoretically, transmitting more than interlaced signal will require a higher bandwidth media (higher cable and connector spec).

thanks, maskrider, although i'm more or less aware of s-video composition. honestly, i don't really see a problem with the bandwidth - nothing a semi-decently shielded (possibly twisted) copper cable woudln't be able to cope with. k, i admit the s-video cable i have for my DC is rather bleak (not the original but a 3rd party one) and hardly qualifies as 'semi-decently shielded'. but for the record, i've seen VGA-switch boxes of so poor quality still capable to sustain 800x600 @75 (progressive, fcourse).

But there are 5 signal channels in the VGA switch box. I have some cheapo switch box which use short unshielded wires (those ribbon cables) inside the box. They cause blurriness even at 800x600x75Hz.

For S-Video, the Y channel also have to carry the composite sync. In my experience, even with interlaced NTSC (under 8MHz), many S-Video cables are already causing lost of details comparing to some decent ones with a decent display. Cables with uneven propagation delay will cause luma/chroma delay.