Sony Barred From Making Dual Shocks, has to pay $90M

[TEXAN]

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=332037

Sony ordered to pay $90.7 mil. in patent infringement suit

Saturday, March 26, 2005 at 15:37 JST
LOS ANGELES — The U.S. District Court in Oakland, California, has ordered Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. and its U.S. unit to pay $90.7 million in damages to Immersion Corp. for patent infringement over controllers used with PlayStation game consoles.

In the ruling handed down Thursday, the federal court also ordered Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Entertainment America Inc. to stop selling the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 game consoles using Dualshock controllers as well as more than 40 game software products. (Kyodo News)

 

[Kolgar]

Don't you just love lawyers!

Appeal.

 

[BRiT]

This company seems to have a legitimate patent relating to force-feedback. Logitech and MS license their technology from Immersion Corp. Sony was stupid to think they could fight this.

 

[BOOMEXPLODE]

Woah all our dual shock controllers might become rare collectors items =]

 

[Npl]

This company seems to have a legitimate patent relating to force-feedback. Logitech and MS license their technology from Immersion Corp. Sony was stupid to think they could fight this.

erm, what the hell is patent-worthy on a rotating, unbalanced weight ?
I dont care if its "legal" if you bend around some laws, its agains any kind of halfway sane thinking.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Ouch. Controllers and games? I don't think that's warranted.

 

[jvd]

Ouch. Controllers and games? I don't think that's warranted.

of course it is , they broke the law and the law won


just want to add , if they had forced a recall on the games and controllers that would have been unwarranted and would have cost sony alot more

 

[Lazy8s]

It's not the concept that's patented. It's the specific implementation.

 

[Acert93]

This company seems to have a legitimate patent relating to force-feedback. Logitech and MS license their technology from Immersion Corp. Sony was stupid to think they could fight this.

erm, what the hell is patent-worthy on a rotating, unbalanced weight ?
I dont care if its "legal" if you bend around some laws, its agains any kind of halfway sane thinking.

Right or Wrong, the bottom line is that these companies all play the same game. If someone can show that Sony never patents basic ideas and has never tried to guard a patent or trademark we can talk. I am not saying the system is not screwed up, but they all actively participate in it.

In general I think what has happened to MS is wrong, but that did not stop them losing $600M. If Logitech and MS paid this company then Sony took a big risk by testing the system. They lost. But what did they lose?

100M PS1
80M PS2

Between the two there are probably at least 200M DS type controllers, maybe more toward the 300M+ range considering many people have 4 controllers or replaced old broken ones. You are looking at ~$0.30 licensing fee per controller--controllers that they charge $25.00 for.

In that perspective, if they did something wrong (the courts say the did... I could not have an opinion without reading the patent and hearing exactly why they are in conflict and Sony's side) they really are NOT being taken to the cleaners.

Anyhow, this came up a couple months ago--is this the results of an appeal? Before the 90M number was thrown around, but not the ceasation of selling the DS and games. That is pretty harsh... hopefully Sony comes to an agreement with them quickly.

 

[Guden Oden]

What specific implementation?

This patent sounds completely frivolous. It's not non-obvious (since Nintendo already did this before Sony came out with their shocky controller, as did any number of toys from decades ago), and it's not original either for the same reasons. Awarding $90M for this is complete and utter bullshit madness.

 

[Teasy]

AFAIK Guden Nintendo use a different implimentation for this which they have patented.

 

[fallguy]

Woah all our dual shock controllers might become rare collectors items =]

Yeah, all gazillion of them...

 

[London Geezer]

So will i be arrested and detained if i use one of my "old" patent-infringing DS2s??

 

[TexT]

Woah all our dual shock controllers might become rare collectors items =]

Yeah, all gazillion of them...

 

[Geeforcer]

Can you say $26 million well-spent by Microsoft?

 

[Inane_Dork]

Can you say $26 million well-spent by Microsoft?

Yes.

 

[Guden Oden]

AFAIK Guden Nintendo use a different implimentation for this which they have patented.

WHAT "different implementation"? It's all nothing but a small toy motor with an umbalanced weight attached to it. There can't be any "different implementations" of something like that. Maybe if Sony'd used tiny diesel engines instead in their dual shocks, but even then it wouldn't really have mattered as it's still motor + weight. Damn, I should have become a patent lawyer and made a gazillion bucks off of bullshit.

 

[PC-Engine]

All Your Dualshock Are Belong to Us wuahahahaaa.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What are Sony supposed to supply with their PS2's then? Are controllers to be unavailable?

Any links to the Immersion patent that was infringed? I'd like to see with my own eyes that what Immersion have isn't obvious, is new, and hasn't any prior art.

EDIT...
Okay, found these:

The case focused on US patents 6,275,213 and 6,424,333, which cover "haptic feedback" - specifically, the use of computer-controlled vibrating motors to provide tactile feedback to the user of a program.

From there I link to the USPTO...
Patent

Both patents are the same system, only as part of this continuation thing that I don't understand. In the UK you file a patent and can't add new technologies to it. When it expires, it's public domain. These patents are continuations of an abandoned patent from '95

This is a continuation application of prior U.S. application Ser. No. 09/561,782, filed on May 1, 2000 now U.S. Pat. No. 6,275,213, in the name of Marc Tremblay, et al., which is a continuation of prior U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/066,608, filed on Apr. 24, 1998 now U.S. Pat. No. 6,088,017, which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 08/565,102, filed Nov. 30, 1995, abandoned; and all of which are incorporated herein by reference.

Here's the main claims

1 A computer peripheral connected to a host computer for enabling a user to provide input to a graphical simulation running on said host computer and for providing vibration feedback to said user, said vibration feedback corresponding with displayed interactions within said graphical simulation, said computer peripheral comprising:

an analog sensor responsive to manipulation by a user during operation of said computer peripheral;

a rotating-mass actuator including a shaft and an eccentric mass mounted on said shaft, said rotating-mass actuator operative to impart a rotating vector force upon said user, said rotating vector force creating a tactile sensation upon said user that is perceived by said user as one of a vibration, an impulse, and a series of impulses depending upon a speed of rotation and a number of rotations of said mass, said rotating mass actuator capable of providing all of said vibration, impulse, and series of impulses, said speed of rotation and said number of rotations being controlled by a profile of an activating signal provided to said rotating-mass actuator, said activating signal causing said tactile sensation to have a frequency that varies over the duration of said tactile sensation; and

a signal processor separate from said host computer, said signal processor connected to said analog sensor and said rotating-mass actuator, said signal processor operative to communicate with said host computer, wherein said signal processor sends information to said host computer including sensor data from said analog sensor, and wherein said signal processor controls said rotating-mass actuator to produce said tactile sensation by generating said activating signal in response to received variable data from said host computer.

2. A computer peripheral as recited in claim 1 wherein said signal processor includes a computer processor.

3. A computer peripheral as recited in claim 1 wherein said displayed interaction is the collision of two virtual objects within said graphical simulation.

One obvious point that comes to mind is the person writing this patent has a poor grasp of the English language, as they use the word 'said' instead of the word 'the'

Question is, is this the first implementation of such technology? It might well be, for in my mind I wouldn't have bothered patenting such an idea as a wiggling Joypad seems like a dumb idea. Certainly myself and my friends always turn off rumble in PS2 games. I'd like to know what Sony's argument was when Immersion came to them with this. Certainly it seems thus far Sony were trying to steamroll over someone's fair and legitimate patent.

 

[Vaan]

Can you say $26 million well-spent by Microsoft?

Yes.

I'm forced to post (By my dark side) to say if MicroSoft has paid $26 million, and Sony $90 million, the Huge Redmond "M" has paid ~ the same amount for each controller sold than the Huge Nipon "S"...