some PlayStation 3 performance guess/estimates(wild guesses)

P

Panajev2001a

Veteran
Taken form a post of mine on another board...

So 1 TFLOPS Broadband Engine...


[church lady]let's do some math, shall we ?[/church lady]

Let's say that counting a bit of efficiency and AI and physics and stuff that we get for pure T&L something like 250-300 GFLOPS ( 25-30 % ) in good scenarios ( optimized )...

That is something like 40-48x higher FLOPS rating than PlayStation 2's theoretical max ( 6.2 GFLOPS )...

RAW polygon pushing power, for the EE, should be around 102.85 MVertices/s ( 5 cycles fast transform for VU1 and 7 cycles transform for VU0... no lighting.. gross calculation as 6.2 GFLOPS doesn't all transfer to that amount of polygons per second... )...

Let's say that accounting various factors we have 35x that polygon pushing power ( even if we ammitted up to 48x the GFLOPS rating for the Broadband Engine T&L... ), that would give us... ~3.6 GVertices/s...

At 60 fps that would be ( no lighting... ) 60 MPolygons/frame...

Let's admit inefficiency and stuff and let's add lighting and let's drop our figure by a factor of at least 6.67-7.5... we reach 9-8 MVertices/frame

This is approximately 8x the amount of polygons titles like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. plan to use with NV35 and R350 ( this game is not out yet... ) at good frame-rate...

[...]

I would not mind photon mapping ( cheaper than radiosity it seems computationally ) and a 2.5-3 MVertices/frame polygon count which would mean at 60 fps... 150-180 MVertices/s ( you still have to add all the pixel shading and texture tricks the APUs in the Visualizer would do )...
Counting that I had lighting in mind when I said 8-9 MVertices/frame... going to 2.5-3 MVertices/frame means a ~3x performance hit enabling photon-mapping...



180 MVertices/s is only ~1.75x higher than EE's output ( RAW polygons for the EE, no lighting... )...

Considering a more realistical 15 MVertices/s ( I think it can be pushed more even in real world conditions ) with lighting... we get that 180 MVertices/s is like ~12x higher than 15 MVertices/s... better comparison would be having numbers for the EE doing photon mapping... although the EE would hit memory and bandwidth limitations and get much more hurt than the Broadband Engine ( designed for massive data flows... )...

[...]


Generally we can expect PlayStation 3 to be more like 200-300x PlayStation 2's RAW specs ( the 1,000x performance figure takes other things into account... )...

2.5-3 MVertices/frame / 300 = 8,330-10,000 Vertices/frame which means 0.5-0.6 MVertices/s at 60 fps using photon-mapping...



[...]

I think that photon mapping is neat ( and cheaper than raytracing... they said the same in that Halo 2 article/presentation ) especially for simulating global illumination without using too many lights...

Considering actual polygon counts, lighting and texturing ( and effects done with the Rasterizer ) on PlayStation 2 ( and even Xbox )... having nice pixel shading and higher resolution textures ( better texture filtering as well ) would make 1.5-2 MVertices/frame look very good ( this is still 1.5x-2x the polygon count per frame than Stalker ) especially if we have global dynamic illumination with photon mapping...










What do you think ?

Comments are welcomed...
 
I think it's all speculation of course. :D Who knows how games will look on PS3, personally I doubt we'll see any exotic stuff like photon mapping etc as there simply aren't any devtools for such things. After a while, maybe that will appear, but I would not be very surprised at all to find the majority of titles using quite common techniques used in the PC world for years.

Sure, they'll look better just because they'll run on better optimized, more powerful hardware, but I don't think it'll be that different overall...

Anyway, isn't T&L supposed to run on the GS3? After all, it's supposed to have its own computational resources, at least according to the SPECULATION we've all seen on this board, hehe. Of course I expect the architecture to be flexible enough to allow the Cell to do that too, either in part or in full. That's the problem with speculating like this, you don't really KNOW, hehe!

(Agh, it's so BORING to WAIT for the darned thing to be released so what else can you do, heheh!)


*G*
 
I have no doubt that a final fantasy game on PS3 will look like this.

finalfantasyx_9.jpg
 
I think it's all speculation of course.
Click to expand...

no <beep!> Sherlock, read the topic ;) hehe

:p

Anyways, I think that if the Visualizer uses Cell technology like what we saw in the patent, T&amp;L can be done in either of them... I'd say the Broadband Engine should be doing Vertex Shading ( T&amp;L )... higher FLOPS rating, connection to external RAM ( Yellowstone ? ), etc...

1 TFLOPS vs 256 GFLOPS... uhm I'll choose 1 TFLOPS and leave 256 GFLOPS for Pixel Shading, custom primitive set-up, etc...
 
Chap:

SHUT UP.
Halo2 will NOT do photon mapping in realtime. Don't be a bigger fanboi than you absolutely have to. :D

*G*
 
DeathKnight said:
It's not realtime. They're using photon mapping in place of radiosity for lightmaps (which are pre-rendered beforehand).
Click to expand...


O well, it sounded like realtime from that interview. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :cry:
 
Chap, you silly person. The GF3 will struggle hard enough to do per-pixel lighting in Halo2 at reasonable framerates, there's no way in hell it will be able to do anything resembling radiosity rendering in realtime. You'd have to abuse the hell out of the limited DX8-class pixel shaders and performance would SUCK.

Now, where's that mega-rolleyes thing when you need it?

*G*
 
If development costs wasn't a significant factor, I'd say PS3 as well as Xbox2 and GCN2 will have graphics better than that.
 
uhm... the more I think about it, the more I get perplexed... they wanted to have unified lighting in Halo 2, but photon-mapping in real-time on the Xbox seems a bit premature... especially becuase they compare it to Radiosity ( in the presentation )...

Radiosity was not used in Halo 1 real-time graphics, but was probably used in the level making process... there is where photon-mapping will be used...

Sun light doesn't move ( unless you play day-night cycles ) and its rays are mostly parallel so for outdoors we do not need to need a moving light and we could only use ( if we wanted it moving ) a parallel light ( or parallel light sources... cheaper to use... )... however, with pre-calculated lighting for the environment in outdoors sections of the level ( so yes, the lighting would not be a unified lighting scheme, not all the times... ) we can make a very believable lighting and the benefit of having photon-mapping is going to be the speed we can make the levels...
 
chaphack said:
DeathKnight said:
It's not realtime. They're using photon mapping in place of radiosity for lightmaps (which are pre-rendered beforehand).
Click to expand...


O well, it sounded like realtime from that interview. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :cry:
Click to expand...

Nah, the article said they use stencil shadows, they wouldn't have to do that if they had realtime photon mapping.
 
All the knowledge prior to the release of the ps2 made insiders believe it'd do less than a dozen Mpolys... In the end it appears it was far more than that, like 10x more...

Ps3 is expected to do 1Tflops, sony will surprise us again, and George Lucas will give us his funny quotes... I'd say 10+TFlops isn't entirely out of the question....
 
Yes, In my heart I know it'll likely be lower, but let's keep the hope up... my lucky number is 13, for friday the 13 is my lucky day... It'd be nice if that's the number.
 
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