So how capable is the 360 actually going to be for 1080P games?

[Rangers]

At first glance the EDRAM hit of tiling would seem to be a major hindrance versus a non-EDRAM architecture like PS3.

But then again, wont bandwidth become MORE of a limiter at 1080P, therefore the EDRAM might actually help?

360 devs seem scarce around here, and even less talkative, but maybe some of them could give thoughts?

What other factors such as CPU, or perhaps less shading power than PS3, might play into things?

Personally I think microsoft has made the right decision by stating no first party 1080P games are in development. I think 1080P is a glitch for this generation that will fade away over time, due to superior graphics being producable at 720P. But I'm still interested in how actually feasible such games are on 360. Perhaps a few non graphically impressive 1080P games (such as Virtua Tennis 3) in 1080P could help the perception of Xbox360 being less powerful? Although, it's something probably irrelevant to the casual consumer.
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Lucil

 

[Acert93]

PR checkbox, what more is there to say? Will some games use it? Sure, maybe, why not. But with such a small installed base of 1080p sets the main goal is to "take back" a bullet point from the PS3. Sony hyped 1080p, and now MS is playing "Me too!" Kind of irrelevant, but I am sure some fans somewhere can say, "MS Software tools have doubled the power of the 360!"

 

[DeathKnight]

It's capable, but sacrifices have to be made to achieve smooth games at such a res (just like the PS3 1080p games). I'd expect Live Arcade games in the future to take more advantage of it than full retail ones. Like Acert said though, it's more of a bulletpoint than a huge feature. Only a small percentage of 360 owners (past and future) will take advantage of it. Same thing with the PS3, but Sony would like you to think otherwise.

 

[pakotlar]

I'm happy that Microsoft did this, but I don't understand why they didn't have the foresight to include it in their original 2005 debut. I'm all for competition, and this certainly helps them, as much as it is a relatively unreasonable trade for performance/quality. A bullet point. Just like Sony.

 

[Bad_Boy]

but I don't understand why they didn't have the foresight to include it in their original 2005 debut.

I'm interested in why this wasnt unvealed earlier, this is just a software update thats enabling this, correct?

 

[Acert93]

I'm interested in why this wasnt unvealed earlier, this is just a software update thats enabling this, correct?

Just an OS update. But my guess: 720p/1080i were clearly what "HD" was in early 2005, and at that time there was little to no info on TV sets that not only displayed 1080p, but did 1080p over Component, I can see holding back any plans until there was something substantial.

Personally, I think Sony with the "1080p over Component" PS3-20GB SKU kind of paved the way for MS to look into this. It probably woke MS up, "Hey wait, they can get 1080p signals over Component? And there are TVs coming that will take a 1080p Component signal and display it natively as 1080p? Well we can do that".

 

[Diamond.G]

Just an OS update. But my guess: 720p/1080i were clearly what "HD" was in early 2005, and at that time there was little to no info on TV sets that not only displayed 1080p, but did 1080p over Component, I can see holding back any plans until there was something substantial.

Personally, I think Sony with the "1080p over Component" PS3-20GB SKU kind of paved the way for MS to look into this. It probably woke MS up, "Hey wait, they can get 1080p signals over Component? And there are TVs coming that will take a 1080p Component signal and display it natively as 1080p? Well we can do that".

It makes me wonder. If Sony was touting 1080p over component (at least on the cheaper sku) then what was the real reason for adding HDMI to the cheap sku? I think this is potentially where contention will be seen from MS. Unless they put out something regarding HDMI Sony could stand the chance of peeing in their (MS) wheaties in regards to movie output. Not that we would complain, since most of the time the scalar in the TV is better, but what about J6P? They obviously have a hard time understanding the difference, and it is obvious that they (Sony, et al) are probably not gonna explain it in a manner other than 1080I is teh lamzors! 1080P roxors!!!11
It almost is a shame that the 360 has yet to be really reverse engineered, maybe then we would know what it truly is capable of output wise, since MS is being very coy...

 

[Bad_Boy]

It makes me wonder. If Sony was touting 1080p over component (at least on the cheaper sku) then what was the real reason for adding HDMI to the cheap sku?

Only in games from what I remember. 1080p cannot be done over component for blu-ray movies IIRC, and HDMI 1.3 enables higher audio support that cannot be done over component IIRC (TrueHD/DTS-HD). And overall the 20gig model was seen as a "tard pack", but now its no longer seen as a gimped model, just a model with slightly less accessories (all of which can be upgraded to the same specs as the higher model, before hdmi was the barrier). Youll probably see a lot of people switch towards the 20gig model now that hdmi is in.

Me personally, I'm still going with the 60gig configuration. I find the wifi/memory card slots/extra hdd space very useful.

 

[Diamond.G]

Only in games from what I remember. 1080p cannot be done over component for blu-ray movies IIRC, and HDMI 1.3 enables higher audio support that cannot be done over component IIRC (TrueHD/DTS-HD). And overall the 20gig model was seen as a "tard pack", but now its no longer seen as a gimped model, just a model with slightly less accessories (all of which can be upgraded to the same specs as the higher model, before hdmi was the barrier). Youll probably see a lot of people switch towards the 20gig model now that hdmi is in.

Me personally, I'm still going with the 60gig configuration. I find the wifi/memory card slots/extra hdd space very useful.

So HD-DVD doesn't have the 1080i restraint that BR does?

If that is true then could it not be plausible to state that Sony added HDMI to the cheaper sku to combat MS's possible touting of 1080p for it's HD movies?

As far as the main topic is concerned it seems like anything is possible, it just depends on how much work one is willing to go through to make it happen. It actually seems like a way to get some free AA for those of us who have 720p displays. I think the outputting of 1080p isn't as important as the ability to render it internally. Although I rememeber seeing an argument/post here that claimed internally everything is done progressively so the 1080 lines are there (for some games mind you) but it was up to the output chip to convert it to an interlaced format (for those actually using 1080i). How true is that statement/post?

 

[hey69]

i just hope sony will at least provide component cables ala xbox360 with the consoles. what good is it if you only get composite cables together with a bleurayenabled highend nextgen superconsole..

 

[Bad_Boy]

So HD-DVD doesn't have the 1080i restraint that BR does?

HD-DVD should be the same. 1080i only through component. Though 1080p through VGA.

If that is true then could it not be plausible to state that Sony added HDMI to the cheaper sku to combat MS's possible touting of 1080p for it's HD movies?

Well I dont think they knew anything about it honestly. The announcement of 1080p for the 360 was only a couple days before the ken kutaragi keynote, they displayed photos of the 20gig model with hdmi added so it was probably planned a lot earlier. I think they added it because it seemed really gimped that you couldnt even watch their format (blu-ray) in 1080p and many things where up in the air about how things would work with HDCP things being enabled in the future, they seemed to get alot of flack for it. Remember when they first announced the two SKU's? everybody was kinda annoyed that the lower model had no hdmi at all.

Now that both models have hdmi, theres really no confusion, only that the 3 things (memory card slots, extra hdd space, and wifi) will be the deciding factor in which configuration you buy (the way it should be imo).

 

[Rangers]

Just a general heads up, AFAIK, some microsoft bigwig on the AVS forums basically stated that 1080P is going to be over VGA on 360.

Makes sense for a ton of reasons as far as I know. Dodges the entire AACS component limitations entirely.

There was a lot of conflicting info on 1080P movies over component before, but it seems to me that's all irrelevant now. As well, it's been stated that overall there are a lot more VGA inputs floating around than component.

1080P over VGA is just one of many allowable PC resolutions, and as such the AACS couldn't really regulate it.
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Colorado marijuana dispensaries

 

[London Geezer]

I'm a bit sceptical about the scaler. Having seen how it handles 720p upscaling (not too well), i can't think how upscaled material will look at 1080p.

I think it's just another checklist feature, which is fine really, have nothing against that. Today we live in a world where the longer the list of your features is, the better it is, whether the feature actually works properly or not...

Personally i think the scalers on most medium-high-ish end TVs is better than the one in the 360 (with some exceptions), so i would much rather feed the TV whatever resolution the 360 is rendering at, and let the TV scale it up accordingly.

 

[-=P3tRaN=-]

I'm a bit sceptical about the scaler. Having seen how it handles 720p upscaling (not too well), i can't think how upscaled material will look at 1080p.

vga dvds scaled up to 720p look very nice on my tv.
scaled up ninja gaiden black and halo2 also look beautifull and crisp.
I'm not sceptical at all.

also if I remember correctly, back when 360 was releasing for the first time, ATI had said that the machine is very capable of 1080p.
they even said that judging from what was known of ps3 techspecs, 360 would have more chance performing at 1080p games than ps3.
well, that was ati, but I dont seem to recall them lying many times in general..

 

[Acert93]

Just a general heads up, AFAIK, some microsoft bigwig on the AVS forums basically stated that 1080P is going to be over VGA on 360.

Do me a favor and tell the MS guy at AVS: Screw 1080p and give us PROPER 720p "letter-boxed" at 1280x1024 through VGA. What is the point of VGA if the native target resolution, 720p, gets stretched all messed up on 5:4/4:3 CRTs? Yeah you can squash the image with the horizontal feature on the CRT, but what would be so hard about outputting a 1280x1024 image with 152 black pixels at the top and 152 black pixels to the bottom and display 1280x720 in the middle? VGA support on the 360 is pretty weak unless you have a nice PC LCD that will do pixel mapping (and isn't too big), accept component, or run at a lower resolution (or have a resolution where the game scales the graphics for you).

Ugh. Hopefully other companies get VGA right.