Roy Taylor: "Only Brits care about ATI"

[INKster]

http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...nvidia-only-brits-care-about-about-ati-364318

Ouch !
Roy Taylor doesn't seem to know when to stop, after those shots aimed at Intel and AMD just recently...

BTW, since he's a Brit himself, does that mean that he's publicly rooting for the enemy while simultaneously deriding them ?
My head hurts with so much spin...

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

You know Nvidia's scared when they start their misinformation campaign and then tell everyone they are not worried about the people they are deriding. If that was true, why spend all that time and money on a negative campaign for competitors that are not a threat?

Given what they've recently said about Intel, I think Nvidia can see it coming now - that day when they are caught between the Intel rock and the AMD hard place when both companies can supply everything themselves instead of getting it from Nvidia.

 

[Florin]

The Brits still care, then? I figured they were just buying 9600GTs by now, like the rest of the world.

 

[INKster]

Given what they've recently said about Intel, I think Nvidia can see it coming now - that day when they are caught between the Intel rock and the AMD hard place when both companies can supply everything themselves instead of getting it from Nvidia.

Let's not be so dramatic now.
There are still plenty of market segments where either AMD or Intel can't (or rather won't, in Intel's case, the moment thay sold the business unit to Marvell to concentrate on Atom) compete, like advanced mobile devices for instance.
Nvidia's smart move by buying PortalPlayer when they were down and then coming up with their first ARM 2D/3D/CPU chip -APX 2500- may just be the desktop exit strategy they wanted, but are hoping it's never going to be needed in the future.
There, their considerable 3D rendering and digital video know-how, patent portfolio and R&D talents are a definitive plus going forward.

After all, ARM-based processors still outsell their x86-based counterparts by a significant margin.

 

[Arun]

NV should stop being so arrogant about their upcoming product launches, or they risk looking just as dumb as with G92 vs RV670 where they massively underestimated RV670 from every single point of view internally. I'm not saying they will underdeliver and AMD will overdeliver this time around, but it seems pretty dumb to risk making the same mistake again.

Nvidia's smart move by buying PortalPlayer when they were down and then coming up with their first ARM 2D/3D/CPU chip -APX 2500- may just be the desktop exit strategy they wanted, but are hoping it's never going to be needed in the future.
There, their considerable 3D rendering and digital video know-how, patent portfolio and R&D talents are a definitive plus going forward.

First it's worth pointing out NV got their ARM11 MPCore license substantially before buying PortalPlayer; that acquisition was all about getting AAA engineers and IP, not a specific roadmap or target market.

Secondly, ARM-based SoC ASPs are substantially smaller than x86 CPU ASPs. That might change slightly in the future as x86 gets commoditized and non-ARM parts of the SoC become more and more valuable, but don't expect any miracles. If NVIDIA is very successful in this market, they'll make a lot of money - but still substantially less than they are making on GPUs today. Just look at Texas Instruments and Qualcomm's revenues if you exclude licensing, analogue and infrastructure. It's very big, sure, but nothing mind-blowing and it doesn't beat NV's current business.

So it's a big and high-margin growth opportunity, but should not be overestimated. PC GPUs will remain NV's core market for years to come, they'll just become slightly less dependent on them if other efforts go well.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Let's not be so dramatic now.

I dunno - Jensun seems pretty "drama-queen" here. It's a bit rich from a company who's stated aim is to "light every pixel on the planet".

I predicted this when the ATI/AMD merger and Intel getting back into graphics came to light. Both AMD and Intel want a slice of that graphics pie. Not only are GPUs encroaching on the traditional CPU space, but Intel/AMD have to have something to spend all those extra cores on as they commit to going down the road of multi-core parallelism. Both Intel/AMD also want to control and profit from their own chipsets, both standalone and IGP.

This pretty much leaves Nvidia looking down a cul-de-sac in a few years time, with both Intel and AMD denying access to their platforms for chipsets, moving into Nvidia's traditional graphics markets, taking significant GPU functionality into their onboard IGPs and eventually CPU/GPU hybrids.

It's no wonder Nvidia fallen back on their traditional marketing response of a FUD campaign against those they insist are no threat.

 

[INKster]

Yeah, but then again, when there are so many tirades, it leaves you wondering what exactly is it that they have up their sleeve which gives them so much confidence...
Afterall, the next round of this particular fight is just around the corner.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Yeah, but then again, when there are so many tirades, it leaves you wondering what exactly is it that they have up their sleeve which gives them so much confidence...

No, I disagree. Historically, Nvidia's always embarked on big negative campaigns when they are weak on their hardware and think a competitor has something better. I think Jensun's ranting because he's a bit of a monomaniacal demagogue, and relations with Intel have hit an all time low, at the same time as RV7xx is imminent from AMD.

 

[INKster]

No, I disagree. Historically, Nvidia's always embarked on big negative campaigns when they are weak on their hardware and think a competitor has something better. I think Jensun's ranting because he's a bit of a monomaniacal demagogue, and relations with Intel have hit an all time low, at the same time as RV7xx is imminent from AMD.

That only happened once that i can recall (NV3x), so you can't really draw a behavior pattern of that fact alone.

Besides, NV3x failed because of a number of factors, not just because of a weak, radical new VLIW design with a completely new API from MS (DX9).
Relations with Microsoft at the time were rough -leaving them out of the exact target to spec the hardware to-, TSMC's 130nm process was still buggy, plenty of top engineers were diverted to the Xbox 1 NV2X, GDDR2 was still in its infancy, etc.

GT200 looks nothing like that.
It's an evolutionary step, i think. Based on an established API (DX10), and an established process tech (65/55nm).

 

[Florin]

No, I disagree. Historically, Nvidia's always embarked on big negative campaigns when they are weak on their hardware and think a competitor has something better. I think Jensun's ranting because he's a bit of a monomaniacal demagogue, and relations with Intel have hit an all time low, at the same time as RV7xx is imminent from AMD.

Do you seriously think Nvidia is 'weak on their hardware' at this point in time, and that RV7xx is a major concern?

Maybe you ought to consider that there actually isn't any hidden agenda, and that this marketing guy is simply looking at market share and recent design wins and coming up with the conclusion that there are in fact only 2 players, Intel and Nvidia.

 

[Scali]

Well apparently beyond3d still cares

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Do you seriously think Nvidia is 'weak on their hardware' at this point in time, and that RV7xx is a major concern?

Maybe you ought to consider that there actually isn't any hidden agenda, and that this marketing guy is simply looking at market share and recent design wins and coming up with the conclusion that there are in fact only 2 players, Intel and Nvidia.

LOL! Do you really think that is true? You think this marketing guy is being "honest" because he says that AMD don't matter, yet when Jensun rants about Intel it's because Intel are their only true competitor (who they tried to get into bed with recently, but Jensun's ego scuppered the deal)?

It's not like Nvidia are the only company selling chipsets, graphics cards, mobile graphics or IGPs. You only have to look at the figures. And you can't say that Nvidia is going to compete in the CPU space like AMD/Intel are competing in Nvidia's space of graphics and chipsets.

How about if an AMD marketing man comes out and "looks at the design wins" and says that Nvidia have no future? Can't see nvidia selling motherboards, CPUs, or fusion style hybrids. Didn't see them win many OEM deals against RV630 due to power/heat requirements. AMD's 780G is a step above every other IGP right now.

There's no doubt that Nvidia hold the monolithic single GPU crown at the moment and the halo effect that comes with it, but the market is more than that, and to suggest that AMD and Intel arn't their competitors is ludicrous. Fact is that the next few years are going to pit Nvidia against Intel on one side and AMD/ATI on the other.

The only reason you pitch a negative FUD campaign against the opposition is because you know your products can't do the talking for you, so you muddy the waters and fling some mud about knowing that some will stick. When you can't criticise their products, you criticise the company. When you can't do that, you dodge the questions and fling FUD in the hope everything gets lost in the wash.

 

[Florin]

How about if an AMD marketing man comes out and "looks at the design wins" and says that Nvidia have no future? Can't see nvidia selling motherboards, CPUs, or fusion style hybrids. Didn't see them win many OEM deals against RV630 due to power/heat requirements. AMD's 780G is a step above every other IGP right now.

Technologically that may very well be true, but chipsets are actually another good example of a market where AMD has dropped the ball. Nvidia's chipsets outnumber AMD's 3 to 1 even on their own shrinking platform. For an AMD man to make such a claim would be rather ludicrous.

There's no doubt that Nvidia hold the monolithic single GPU crown at the moment and the halo effect that comes with it, but the market is more than that, and to suggest that AMD and Intel arn't their competitors is ludicrous. Fact is that the next few years are going to pit Nvidia against Intel on one side and AMD/ATI on the other.

Noone suggests Intel isn't their competitor. That is the fight Nvidia is gearing up for. But the notion that AMD/ATI is going to be around as a powerhouse capable of putting any kind of crunch on Nvidia in a future market constellation is not such a given.

The only reason you pitch a negative FUD campaign against the opposition is because you know your products can't do the talking for you, so you muddy the waters and fling some mud about knowing that some will stick. When you can't criticise their products, you criticise the company. When you can't do that, you dodge the questions and fling FUD in the hope everything gets lost in the wash.

I'm not sure if that comment qualifies as a 'negative FUD campaign', but at least he actually mentioned ATI. I guess he could've just ignored them completely instead.

 

[INKster]

Despite the "design wins" for IGP's (which can't be more than rumors for now, as those deals are usually confidential), all that matters for any company in the end is how much cash you get in return for what you sell.
Last time i checked, AMD wasn't doing too good on that front...

IGP's and mobile low-end discrete GPU's don't add that much to the bottom line, despite the raw number of units sold, especially when the AMD CPU market is very small now.
How many laptops do you know with modern AMD CPU's ? There, Intel rules,so AMD-based laptops with AMD-designed chipsets tend to mean little in the overall.

And let's not forget that Nvidia still has to introduce their own mobile IGP for Intel CPU's, and so their market share will increase anyway -starting from zero as of now-.
Dispensing the Southbridge by going with a unified MCP7x may prove to be a wise strategy there, since we know ICH10 will still need to be around when X58 hits (the first consumer "Nehalem" architecture oriented chipset).
Besides, there are already sketchy rumors of the MCP8x family from Nvidia...

 

[Arun]

Well apparently beyond3d still cares

For Roy's sake, I hope he wasn't thinking of Beyond3D when he said "Brits"!

 

[Dave Baumann]

Technologically that may very well be true, but chipsets are actually another good example of a market where AMD has dropped the ball. Nvidia's chipsets outnumber AMD's 3 to 1 even on their own shrinking platform. For an AMD man to make such a claim would be rather ludicrous.

As far as Q1 marketshares are concerned on integrated chipsets thats far from accurate. Additionally RS780 was only shipping in China then.

 

[Fox5]

NV should stop being so arrogant about their upcoming product launches, or they risk looking just as dumb as with G92 vs RV670 where they massively underestimated RV670 from every single point of view internally.

Explain? I haven't followed graphics tech so closely lately, but everything I've heard has nvidia winning on the high end and at least tieing at lower price points.

 

[swaaye]

Explain? I haven't followed graphics tech so closely lately, but everything I've heard has nvidia winning on the high end and at least tieing at lower price points.

Yeah I'd like to know what he means too.

Seems to me that RV670 was just a more efficient implementation of a GPU that was previously way over-equipped (bandwidth) and power-sucking per performance. Overengineered, one might say. G92, a shrunk and refined previous generation design just like RV670, still comprehensively beat it per clock. And then G94 pretty much eliminated all practical reasons to purchase RV670.

And then there's the HD 3650 that again struggles against NV's equivalent (8600GTS) . ATI is beaten at every level aside from IGPs. Of course they reduce pricing, but how low can they go. It just shows that they at least know they can't do price parity per segment.

 

[AlphaWolf]

And then there's the HD 3650 that again struggles against NV's equivalent (8600GTS) . ATI is beaten at every level aside from IGPs. Of course they reduce pricing, but how low can they go. It just shows that they at least know they can't do price parity per segment.

How is a 8600gts price parity with a 3650? Looking at Newegg the 3650 (as low as $40 after rebate) seems to be about 2/3rds the price of an 8600gts (lowest $70 after rebate.

 

[INKster]

How is a 8600gts price parity with a 3650? Looking at Newegg the 3650 (as low as $40 after rebate) seems to be about 2/3rds the price of an 8600gts (lowest $70 after rebate.

Then again, the real competitor to a HD3650 is the 9500 GT, not the 8600 GTS.