Rocksmith

[liolio]

Hey Scott which guitar did you buy?

And the trick for bar chord is that it doesn't require much strength.
Beginners tends to "pinch" the neck in between their thumb and forefinger. Actually overall beginners tends to put too much strength in their left hand, especially with electric guitar which use lighter string gauge than acoustic, you don't need that much strength.
After a few day the skin on you finger should be a tad tougher, if it hurt too much --> most likely you are trying to encrust you strings in the frets...

Anyway back to bar (but applies to most of time for fingering), the strength comes from your forearm/wrist position.

I assume your are using the academic position for bar chord, with the thumb somewhere in the middle of the back of your neck.
Let just rest you forefinger on a given (for now you should not care for the proper finger it is just to feel how to exercise the proper pressure on your strings) as if you were to play a bar chord.

Now try both approaches:
Pinch the neck, you should feel that it put after a while some pressure on the bif musche in your thumb, overall your hand should not feel really confortable, relaxed. That is the bad approach.
Now instead of pinching (you still do but to a way lesser extend), don't move your thumb and move your elbow forward, naturally the "plane" of your finger should get more parralel to the neck. Your hand kind of rotate with the thumb being the ref point toward the frets.
It should require a lot less strength to pinch the neck now.

Now try again both approach but before proceeding , put your finger in a major bar chord position, just let them rest on the finger.
Try to just pinch and so fretting the chord and and then to move the elbow/forearm forward lightly, You have to feel it but it makes overall a hell of a difference.

Actually you will find that the same apply with fretting in most not matter you are in a academic or "blues" position, a lot of the fretting effort is alleviate by a proper elbow/forearm positioning which in turn alter your wrist and ultimately you finger.
It is a matter of cleverly leverage... leverage

Good luck

 

[Scott_Arm]

Oh, a friend of mine told me that Rocksmith shows the names of the chords when you play them, which is good. I didn't notice them when I saw them, but that's probably because I was frantically trying to find the finger positions it was showing. So I found the notes on the fret board online, so I'm going to study that and some music theory on the side.

I friend of mine helped me pick out a guitar. I got a cheap one, but rather than buy the cheapest of the cheap, he told me to get something I could sell if I found I wasn't enjoying learning. So I ended up with this (white):

http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Archtop/Dot-Studio.aspx

It's a hollow body, so you can play it without an amp if you want to practice quietly. I don't know anything about guitars, but he said it was a nice guitar to learn on. He had the guitar shop make some adjustments to the neck after playing it. Was nice, because I'd have had no idea what I was doing. He pointed out a few that he would recommend and I just picked the one that I thought looked the coolest.

 

[liolio]

Nice guitar, I've ended up mostly hating humbucker after years of usage though
But I've always like the shape of the one, classy design, does get old

You have a friend playing, that should help, look at the position of his forearm and how that affect his wrist, most guitarists does that without thinking about it and so they can really point out where "the magic" is

EDIT

Found a better wording, lot of the fingering has do with leveraging anchor points (pretty often 2 or 3) and a lot of the magic for leveraging those anchor points be it for fretting bar chords, chords, bends, etc is in the forearm.

EDIT

Another thing you may hear is that fingers are not supposed to move much. It is true in a lot of case but lot of the time the people stating that are not consciously aware of the fact the fingers are not moving much because the hand/wrist/forearm is moving a lot, even though you usually speak about movements of light amplitude.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I have a lot of friends that play in bands, so I've got a lot of people I can talk to if I need help. For now, I'm just gonna keep hammering away at Rocksmith and see where that takes me. I'm only two days in, so hopefully the interest lasts.

 

[liolio]

I have a lot of friends that play in bands, so I've got a lot of people I can talk to if I need help. For now, I'm just gonna keep hammering away at Rocksmith and see where that takes me. I'm only two days in, so hopefully the interest lasts.

Early days are tough, I barely remember but that was at that time a painful process, no friends significantly more advanced than I was, no youtube, no tab for free, etc.

Not too mention that some people are just "bad" at explaining things / "they don't really know what they are doing". I do not state that as "they do shit", I state it at its face value, they trained or got the thing to work at some point or from scratch (the psycho-motor natural skills of some people is nothing short of amazing) but never really put some thoughts in what they were doing from a bio-mechanical pov.

 

[Scott_Arm]

So far I've played at least 3 hours a day, so that's a good sign. Getting to cords will be tough. I can find my way across the fret board pretty naturally already, but if I have to move my fingers up and down the board, between different strings, and pick the correct string, that's where I get into trouble. Don't have the feel for it quite yet. ~15 hours in, and I think that's ok. I've managed to pull off a few of the chords it's thrown at me, but not consistently. My hand definitely doesn't have the motor control I need to do that. Gonna take me a while working at it.

I guess beginner guitarists normally would learn some scales to start, to help at finding the notes and strings quickly. Any scales I should practice when I'm not playing?

 

[liolio]

Well I think it is a good advice at this early stage would be for you (on a technical bio mechanical pov) to focus on the most common open chords and bar chords. Once you are a tad comfortable, learn the position(s) for the minor pentatonic scale (available every where on daweb).

Wrt regard to scale, when not playing I would advice you to work your ears

Say you play a major chord, it is a triad. Say it is a C the note are:
C<major third>E<minor third>G I mean there is a major thrid between the C and the E and a minor one between the E and the G.
The major scale in C is :
C D E F G A B.
The C chord use the major third E and the Fifth G.

If I were to start learning again, erasing all my bad habits, etc. I would start by chords and how they related to scales, try to "sing" harmonic intervals.
First start with major and minor, then introduce the seventh (B in a C major scale) and minor Seventh (Bb). don't do that for long but regularly and while being focused.
The goal would be to be able to sing without going through the scale the root C straight for example to the fifth and then back to C (the root) straight to the third (without singing the note in the middle like C D E F G and then C D E).
then make it a bit more complex say start on the third "sing" the fifht and back to C/root.
Work on both major and minor (3 sounds chord first), next are 7th but don't hurry, honestly I waste insane amount of time trying to burn "steps", to play fast, countless hours lost, I would have gotten a master easily if I spent that amount of time on my education...

It is music first, if you stick to it chord and scale as far as fingering are concerned are going to get better but it is secondary to your ears skills, mine sucks.

EDIT
Don't get stuck to the C chord do that randomly on the neck, with bar chord for example (from the lowest string low string to the high e, for a six string bar chord like a A at the fifth fret, it goes: root, fifth, root, third (major or minor), fifth, root ).

 

[liolio]

So to make it shorter, learn the major scale, it prime usage are triad:
3 tones chords, the root, the third (major or minor) and the fifth.

The minor scale is the major chord but starting from A (/eolian mode).
so A B C D E F G


The thing to know is that there are twelve pitch in an octave only 7 notes and alterations: so all the note starting form A
A- A# - B - C - C# - D - D# - E - F - F# - G - G#

You will notice that the interval between A and B is not the same as in between B and C.
between A and B you have "full step" so 2 frets on your guitar, take your A string, the second fret is a B. At the third fret you had a C. there is a half step , one fret.

Major scales not matter the starting note, the root, reproduce the interval (full step, full step, half step, etc.) that you find in the "natural" C scale which is major as there are two full step between C and E is third, E is the mjor third of C.

Minor is the same starting from A, the natural third is C, which 1 step and a half => a minor third.

Anyway try to sing the most common intervals first, the third (minor major), the fifth, then you can introduce four sounds chords where the 7 is introduced.

I sound possibly pompous it is not the point, I've been playing almost twenty years as it mostly a twenty years recollection of mistakes about how I approached the instrument and foremost music

About scales, I rushed to learned most of them, as I though it was important, obviously fingering are a part of it, but it is the trivial part of it. It won't get you anywhere I finally understood (like a decade later) what it means to learn "scales".

It is learning the interval withing a scale, knowing them how they appear in common and more complex chords, etc.

Creating a scale is "trivial", you have twelve notes, you pick a few of them and you reproduce the pattern from an octave to another.
The chord you can create is what matter and knowing how say for you C chord (C E G) it is going to sound if you play on top of it A (the sixth of the C major chord).

There are two scale to learn first the major and then the minor scale.

Then for the fingering I would start by the minor pentatonic scale, which a lot of bluesy rocky stuffs are based on, but from an harmonic its pov it is just a minor scale with some degree omitted, namely you play (using natural note so it is in A):
A C D E G. (fingering is two note per strings and shape diagram are all over the web ).
You have:
The root A
the third (minor third) E
The fourth D
the fifth E
the minor seventh G

You can play this on your C major chord, as you see that scale has a C a E and a G.
Actually playing this over your C chord introduces:
the second (more often called ninth) D
and the sixth A.
It works because it kind of make your chord "richer" you play in your solo degree of the C scale that are not used by a simple 3 sounds (major in our case) chord. If you play C add2 maj6 you have all the notes of your A pentatonic scale... just kidding actually chord naming is a headache...


Still that is what it means to learn "scale", the "mechanical part" is important as you can't play without it, but learning scale is knowing the interval within the scale and the chords that are created along that scale (moving by thirds). You move by thirds.
In a easy case C major or A minor the chord created are those:
ACE (*) (A minor)
BDF
CEG (*)(C major)
DFA
EGB
FAC
GBD

You are likely to learn the fingering of the pentatonic first (in A: A C D E G A), the chord you can create are those I put * next to them (but you can play on many many... many chords lol).

It is definitely not rocket science (the same for practicing singing the intervals)but most people wrongly will focus on fingering, it is the tool for something way greater, I hold my self as a major proof of that, I "knew" the fingering of all the mode of the major scale before I knew how chords (and simple 3 or 4 notes were really made).

I may sound bothering but I really hope you avoid the usual pit holes beginners usually lose quiet some time in, and as the game should cover fingering already, why not go to the root of how it works and if not that build your "ear skills"

 

[patsu]

Holy crap, a music lesson on B3D !

An easy way to learn chords is Futulele on iOS. I don't play guitar but I use it to play and sing along a few times.

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's a lot to absorb liolio, but I appreciate it. I might have to brush up on my music theory to absorb your post, but that's good

 

[liolio]

That website is awesome

http://www.musictheory.net/exercises

 

[Scott_Arm]

That website is awesome

http://www.musictheory.net/exercises

Thanks for the link. I've been playing regularly. I'm improving every time I play.

So far I only have a few complaints outside of the terrible menus. One is that there aren't enough songs that you can choose to play as chords. Lots of songs use the combo format, which only starts showing you chords if you can score high enough playing the single notes. The problem with that is I'm not good enough at the single notes to start seeing the chords, but I want to practice playing chords just for something different. The other thing I don't like is that sometimes it'll give you some songs that you really don't enjoy in career mode, and if they happen to be challenging songs it's even more annoying. I got a batch of songs that I really don't want to play, but I have to beat them to progress in career mode.

 

[liolio]

Nice it is a catchy instrument, it is a good sign that you keep playing you're caught now, there is no way back

I'm attract to keyboards too, they are kind of the king of instruments for me. The theory makes sense on a keyboard instantly, etc. I tried a bit on an old synthesizer, mostly I do the ear training along with searching notes, intervals on the keyboard.
Still I miss something from the guitar (or other string instrument), the feel of the strings under your fingers, how they react to bend, pressure, etc.
There is something really organic (orgasmic... ) in that feel

 

[Arwin]

Thanks for the link. I've been playing regularly. I'm improving every time I play.

So far I only have a few complaints outside of the terrible menus. One is that there aren't enough songs that you can choose to play as chords. Lots of songs use the combo format, which only starts showing you chords if you can score high enough playing the single notes. The problem with that is I'm not good enough at the single notes to start seeing the chords, but I want to practice playing chords just for something different. The other thing I don't like is that sometimes it'll give you some songs that you really don't enjoy in career mode, and if they happen to be challenging songs it's even more annoying. I got a batch of songs that I really don't want to play, but I have to beat them to progress in career mode.

In practice mode you can pause and then set the level to 100%

 

[Scott_Arm]

In practice mode you can pause and then set the level to 100%

You mean when you choose rehearsal for a song? I'll take a look. That's a good tip, for sure.

Edit: I chose a song and picked "Rehearse", but when I pause there is no option to change the difficulty. Am I doing this wrong?

 

[Arwin]

I think it is in the option where you can choose a section of the song to work on. Forgot what it is called but will have a look later.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think it is in the option where you can choose a section of the song to work on. Forgot what it is called but will have a look later.

In one of the repeater modes? I'll take a look tonight.

Edit: You were right. In any of the "Riff repeater" modes you can pause and set the "Mastery level" to 100%.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Rocksmith 2014

Session mode is a dynamic virtual band that plays along with you. You can select different instruments and styles, I guess. It'll be interesting to see if it works.

Kinect voice control for menus, and probably Eye as well. Love it. Absolutely best game to implement that feature.

 

[Arwin]

Thanks, I'm definitely very interested. Almost a sure buy, though these days I'm also really enthusiastic about Garageband on iPad (using a similar tech, with the iPad being a full amp and pedal set for my electric guitar)