Rise of HBM/HMC: impact on upgradeable GPUs in laptops?

[Deleted member 13524]

With graphics cards getting a lot smaller thanks to a reduced PCB footprint and generally a lower power budget enabled by stacked memory, how possible is it for this to make a large impact on upgradeable graphics in laptops, mainly the gaming-oriented ones like the Alienware and Clevo lines?

Is HBM/HBM2 going to change the form factor of MXM cards?
The MXM cards used to be split by models of size and power consumption but from now on, maybe the size can be the same for every performance target?
Could a (small) size-fits-all enable more variety and adoption of upgradeable laptops?


Another thing I thought of was M.2.
M.2 has access to 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes (4GB/s), which is supposedly more than enough bandwidth for a mid-range mobile graphics card. A 60mm long card (Type C) could comfortably fit a 150-200mm^2 GPU together with one or two stacks of HBM, plus VRMs if the power consumption doesn't go too high.

Looking at the reference design of the desktop GT 745 with a 55W TDP (which has a 150mm^2 GM107 and four DDR3 chips for a 128-bit bus), along with its cooler, I'm thinking that without the components needed to drive analog and digital displays, this card would become really tiny:

What I don't know is how much power the M.2 can provide. Is it PCIe's 75W?

 

[fellix]

"Socketed" GPU/SoC could be a thing with HBM, but more likely on some form of MXM add-in board for more robust power supply, since M.2 is too small.

 

[Blazkowicz]

You still run to a disaster or at least a disappointment if you think about replacing a 35 watt GPU board with an 80 watt one (example numbers).

 

[orangpelupa]

Just buy higher powered adapter ac / charger?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

You still run to a disaster or at least a disappointment if you think about replacing a 35 watt GPU board with an 80 watt one (example numbers).

Of course, there would have to be some form of compatibility check.
Just not like MXM, because that one is too restrictive.
The current MXM 3.0 seems to mandate that the bios of the laptop must support each specific graphics card.
There should be size/power/heat classes and the restrictions should come from there. E.g. the Clevo P150 supports MXM type A, which is good for a graphics card up to 50W, no matter what generation.

 

[Davros]

I'm thinking that without the components needed to drive analog and digital displays, this card would become really tiny:

What point is a card that cant drive displays, compute ?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

What point is a card that cant drive displays, compute ?

AFAIK, MXM cards don't have the hardware to drive displays because those components are soldered directly into the motherboard, for the iGPUs to use.

 

[Ryan Smith]

AFAIK, MXM cards don't have the hardware to drive displays because those components are soldered directly into the motherboard, for the iGPUs to use.

Strictly speaking this is not true. You can have MXM cards that directly drive displays, in fact Mobile G-Sync requires this. However it's rare for laptops to use direct drive these days, as most of them are using Optimus/Enduro.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

My only experience was with the Clevo upgradeable laptops so I didn't know that, thanks.

But mobile G-Sync not being compatible with Optimus then it's a huge set-back! That must definitely hurt battery life.

 

[Blazkowicz]

Some laptops have the hdmi output connected to the discrete GPU too.

Indeed, with Clevo and such brands as MSI, Gigabyte (perhaps Asus though it's been a laptop OEM for longer) you might have a better chance at upgrading the GPU. They're more like beige PCs compared to the usual HP, Dell and so on that are like branded desktops with an attitude of "we've removed anything you might hurt yourself with in the BIOS and only the original configuration is supported"
Though I don't know of a laptop where you can e.g. set RAM timings, disable controllers etc.

 

[Davros]

Even with boards having monitor outputs i cant imagine they also have dacs/tmds, wouldn't they be part of the igp

 

[lanek]

Samsung To Commence Mass Production of HBM Memory in Early 2016

Read more: http://wccftech.com/samsung-enters-...bm-15-tbs-bandwidth-48-gb-vram/#ixzz3jOBhzzxw