Report of REV being 2-3 more powerful than GC is false!
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PC-Engine said:
Definately. The devil in the details is, "Is everything else equal?"
Frankly I'd expect the R&D budget to be similiar as what MS spent (just a TOTAL guess on part but I don't think Nintendo is shy of spending here).
How much does the smaller case size impact what can be put in? I dunno. In another thread we've gone through what is the rough difference in size and innards between the X360 and Rev.
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I think when it comes to R&D no one spends as much as Nintendo, particularly in the gaming market. Considering its the market of priority for them.
PC-Engine said:
Might be well known, but i didn't know.
If that's true, they should really watch where they're spending their money.
How could they have spent a billion dollars on that when gekko's just a regular G3 chip with a slightly modified FPU and maybe bus unit? That's crazy man, it'd be a monumental waste of money. They could have had a CPU custom-designed from the ground up for that kind of money rather than an old half-assed macintosh chip...PC-Engine said:
Hell, according to you, Sony did get a from the ground up custom CPU for HALF that amount of money...
Yes, all things being equal, but they're not. If Rev has the same power as XB360 say, they've shrunk that down to a much smaller space. Is technology REALLY going to shrink that much in six months?PC-Engine said:
The slimline PS2 appeared years after the original launched. How are Nintendo going to be able to manage the same in months? They must have some very advanced fabbing we know nothing about
Merely photocopying up three gekkos into one CPU isn't going to make it competitive against modern chips. It seriously lacks FPU oomph even if clocked at multi-GHz speeds; likely wouldn't get close to 100GFlop even at 3GHz, something which it can't do anyway or at least not without liquid nitrogen cooling due to the short pipeline.jvd said:
Also, gekko's ALUs are designs that date back to the 90s for frig's sake, it be one seriously outdated CPU to build a next-gen console on...
Guden Oden said:How could they have spent a billion dollars on that when gekko's just a regular G3 chip with a slightly modified FPU and maybe bus unit? That's crazy man, it'd be a monumental waste of money. They could have had a CPU custom-designed from the ground up for that kind of money rather than an old half-assed macintosh chip...PC-Engine said:
Hell, according to you, Sony did get a from the ground up custom CPU for HALF that amount of money...
Hey don't ask me, I'm not God or Nintendo.
Shifty Geezer said:Yes, all things being equal, but they're not. If Rev has the same power as XB360 say, they've shrunk that down to a much smaller space. Is technology REALLY going to shrink that much in six months?PC-Engine said:
The slimline PS2 appeared years after the original launched. How are Nintendo going to be able to manage the same in months? They must have some very advanced fabbing we know nothing about
It's not about shinking a Xbox 360 chipset or any existing chipset, it's about designing a chipset from the ground up with similar performance for 65nm off the line.
PC-Engine said:Guden Oden said:How could they have spent a billion dollars on that when gekko's just a regular G3 chip with a slightly modified FPU and maybe bus unit? That's crazy man, it'd be a monumental waste of money. They could have had a CPU custom-designed from the ground up for that kind of money rather than an old half-assed macintosh chip...PC-Engine said:
Hell, according to you, Sony did get a from the ground up custom CPU for HALF that amount of money...
Hey don't ask me, I'm not God or Nintendo.
Well, they got ripped off. Big time.
It's a balancing act between time to launch : power : cost : size. You're suggesting that in six months time difference, Nintendo can produce a system of comparable power to XB360, but at a fraction of the size. I'm saying 6 months isn't enough time to manage that. Nintendo can't create hardware at that size and that performance with only a six-month advantage. Technological progress is fast, but not that fast!
london-boy said:PC-Engine said:Guden Oden said:How could they have spent a billion dollars on that when gekko's just a regular G3 chip with a slightly modified FPU and maybe bus unit? That's crazy man, it'd be a monumental waste of money. They could have had a CPU custom-designed from the ground up for that kind of money rather than an old half-assed macintosh chip...PC-Engine said:
Hell, according to you, Sony did get a from the ground up custom CPU for HALF that amount of money...
Hey don't ask me, I'm not God or Nintendo.
Well, they got ripped off. Big time.
Actually I think I know why it's $1 billion. Nintendo does not own fabs so that's probably for the fabbing at IBM too. PS3 CELL OTOH will be fabbed at SONY and Toshiba's own fabs.
Shifty Geezer said:
Isn't it 1 year? 1 year used to be the time for tech to make it's way from the desktop to the notebook. That seems to have slowed down somewhat now, but you are still having pretty powerful systems in rather small form factors. A hell of a lot more than "2-3x GC", anyways.
Shifty Geezer said:
You're not factoring in 65nm process tech which WILL be available next year. Intel will even be using 65nm THIS year. 65nm is process tech that benefits any IC design. You're also ignoring the fact Revolution will launch 3rd qtr 2006 which is a full year after Xbox 360. I'm not saying this is what Nintendo wants to do or will do, just pointing out what they can reasonably do should the need arise.
PC-Engine said:
Well that's different. Fabbing costs are not not R&D.
R&D takes into account the time you start the drawings of the chip till you get the final chip working properly. Then you mass produce it.
So, i really don't think they spent 1Billion to come up with the Gekko design, cause there really wasn't that much to come up with.
Yes, 65nm is just around the corner and some were hoping to see it for Cell, but that's been unfeasible. Is that going to reduce everything that much? Can we expect a slimline a XB360 or PS3 a year after it's launch too?PC-Engine said:
From everything I've heard, XB360 lanuches this Novembver, PS3 launches spring next year, and Nintendo have said they'll launch the same time PS3 do. I've heard nothing suggesting Revolution will appear a year after XB360.
65nm is not being used for CELL because PS3 needs to launch in the 1st qtr of 2006. That doesn't give SONY enough time.
Nintendo is not launching 1st qtr of 2006, that I'm positive about. Also if MS wants to use 65nm 1 year from launch, they'll do it since they own the IP. In fact they can have the chips fabbed at any fab they want and at whatever process node they deem fit.
PC-Engine said:
Well no one was doubting that Nintendo is going to spend what is needed to release a console.
It seems that MS and Sony are spending much more and lose more money than what is needed though, especially Sony.
The investments and targets are different so we can't really compare then with one another.
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