R520 launch delayed?

Another example of ATI's incompetence and their shitty viewpoint of the customers. I know this line will draw some attention from some people here but please keep in mind that my entire post will be based on the assumption that the l'inq article contains some truth. This means: Please reply with some sense - Saying the l'inq article is mal-informed (and I hope so) is a valid point since they're not the most credible source on the web. But please refrain from personal attack on my observation.

First, if R520 is ready and good to go, why delay the launch? Do they know how much hype they self-generated about that piece of silicon? I'm sure many (including myself) have been eagerly waiting for the SM3.0 part from ATI. And, honestly, how many of you are more excited about AMR (which ATI downplayed from the beginning) than R520 itself?

Considering that AMD core logic market is dominated by nForce, and that Intel just signed on cross-license agreement with nVidia, I really don't think there is much to be gained by ATI from AMR except, ahem, benchmark scores. Nice benchmark scores, probably, will bring them to nice OEM deals accordingly, but where does it leave their retail customers?

This leads to a point made by someone a while ago: ATI is playing yet another wait-and-see strategy which they're very well known for. (Although at this point I'd rather think it's ATI's incompetence than a strategy) Maybe they're madly trying to collect information regarding G70, and the aftermath will just be another overclocked-by-lab-enginnering-sample launch which won't be available to consumers for a year.

Another interesting tidbit from the article is that R520 (maybe) is slower than 6800U SLI. ("maybe" inserted by me) For me, that is OK. For ATI, obviously not. (Again, the benchmarks) I'd rather have a sleek/simple solution than a bulky/buggy mess. After all that downplay and delay, will AMR be worthwile? Will any mobo companies support it? Will anyone buy it after comparing it with intel/nVidia's market dominance? Most importantly, why delay R520 launch because of AMR? I don't think what ATI's customers have been waiting for is AMR, but it's R520.

Couple this article with the following,

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23098

I could only conclude:

1. ATI is not confident about their R520 part (even if its R&D is finished) and wait-and-see what G70 is first.
2. In the meantime, they're trying to launch AMR which will not be attractive to anyone but themselves - solely because of the benchmarks.
3. When G70 arrives, or at least when they gather enough information about it, we will see a new SKU dubbed "XT-PE-MEGA-ULTRA-TURBO" which will not be available for a year.

Will this benefit consumers? No. Will this benefit ATI through OEM deals with a shiny Powerpoint presentation? Maybe. Does this show ATI's lack of interest in customer satisfaction and their general incompetence? Definitely.

I feel like an idiot waiting for this part. R520 had been delayed from spring launch to June launch, now it's delayed till fall since rumours regarding G70 have been around.

lop
 
trinibwoy said:
Are you guys referring to personal contacts at ATI or just general public info? Cause Nvidia has been just as silent. Silence isn't necessarily a sign of foreboding. Maybe they're both just keeping their cards closer to their chest.

but in contrast to Nvidia ATI already talked a littlebit about R520.
 
If the R520 gets released when the G70 gets released then I might actually decide to buy the G70 instead.

ATI are gonna lose if they think they can make us wait.

I'm starting to lose my patient now.

US
 
About the G70 being single-slot cooled - I wouldn't bet on it.

If the report on R520 is true I would guess:

1. R420 (and variants) are doing quite well, Longhorn seems to be a ways off yet and the only application that would benefit from the release of R520 now is 3dmark05. If they can pump out a couple more months of X800's and turn a good profit then why not.

2. They got word of G70 performance, got spooked and went back to the lab.

3. They got word of G70 performance, realized R520 was too fast and went back to the lab :)

4. Technical issues with R520 (although the Inq stated that this wasn't an issue)
 
Maybe it's because they have decided to have IBM fab the 520 and they need a little more time to get the new process going well.
 
trinibwoy said:
About the G70 being single-slot cooled - I wouldn't bet on it.

You're right to hold fire on this, because The Inq is seemingly unable to decide whether it's a single slot, relative low-power GPU, or some mammoth 4 Heatpipe, 150W+ monster. It seems to be changing week to week.

If the report on R520 is true I would guess:

1. R420 (and variants) are doing quite well, Longhorn seems to be a ways off yet and the only application that would benefit from the release of R520 now is 3dmark05. If they can pump out a couple more months of X800's and turn a good profit then why not.

2. They got word of G70 performance, got spooked and went back to the lab.

3. They got word of G70 performance, realized R520 was too fast and went back to the lab :)

4. Technical issues with R520 (although the Inq stated that this wasn't an issue)

I'd be surprised if this delay is anything other than ATi having a fair idea when G70 is being launched. NVIDIA would be more than happy to milk the 6xxx series for a few more months, and if they're in no rush to release, ATi don't need to be either. The additional time also gives them the opportunity to fine tune some aspects of the card/drivers.

#1 is probably the most likely then, with #2 a distant second. #3 is very unlikely, as is #4 if you're talking about problems on the NV30 scale of things. This isn't really a big enough departure for them to have completely run aground like NV did with the NV30.

I'm disappointed if the article is true, since it leaves me stuck in limbo regarding a graphics card for the next few months. I'll have to keep an eye on how this pans out, I guess. I've got a PCI-E motherboard waiting for me, and my AGP X800TT (or whatever Dig calls it) on eBay :cry:
 
I've asked this once before but here we go again: Crossfire is the name of Ati's mvp-solution, yes?
 
I think ATI should be very careful making decisions based on on any information they get regarding G70. Very careful.

We know what ATI did last year with the smoke screen around the R420, nVidia can do the same thing.

...but then again, maybe this is ATI Smoke Screen v2.0
 
I would assume that ATI has heard --as have we all-- that NV is sitting on G70 to see what R520 is. Of course, whether it is true or not is a separate question. There seems to be even more head fakes and "will they/won't they" than last time around.

Due to the factors that Wavey points at, it wouldn't surprise if ATI would like more time with R520 from a stability/optimization pov. But it also wouldn't surprise me if a lot of what we are seeing right now is just these two companies trying to fake each other out. And, possibly, there is a little shifting around right now to better line up in the future with Longhorn's expected dates.

Thing is, given the efficiencies that should come with 90nm, and better yields, I would think it makes economic sense to get these things out the door sooner rather than later if it really is ready to go. Be interesting to know if the midrange and low-end parts are still on the same schedule.
 
Valve's Lost Coast techdemo, which they'll release at E3, requires sm3.0/FPb16HDR if you want to play it at High Quality. If the 2.0/integerHDR mode looks less, and 6800 cards can play the HQ mode with decent framerates, then Ati has a problem if they don't have a sm3.0 card asap. Because who wants to buy a Xxxx then?

So i think we'll see R520 at E3 with Valve. :)
 
A couple of things here, my belif is that the "simplest" answer is usually
right.
I belive/guess that ATI are having some problems with the process change to 90nm. I say that because EVERYONE have had problems with the 90nm node. Then how good the 90nm LowK is at the moment is anyones guess.
But if it´s delayed i would bet on the new process nothing else.

I mean for ATI it would be good to have the whole 5xx series out as soon
as possible so they also get SM3 from the top with R520 all the way down to the entry-level. Then what the performance is we can only speculate.

So i think the sooner ATI releases R520 all the better for the consumer and then NV refresh part/parts will arrive.
Or even simpler maybe nVidia relese it´s card´s before ATI if they have the confidence that permance is up on pair.

Because we know ZERO about G70, and remember this is companies that
suprised almost everyone atleast once.

Brimstone wrote
Maybe it's because they have decided to have IBM fab the 520 and they need a little more time to get the new process going well.

IBM is not fabbing the R520.
 
Apple740 said:
Valve's Lost Coast techdemo, which they'll release at E3, requires sm3.0/FPb16HDR if you want to play it at High Quality. If the 2.0/integerHDR mode looks less, and 6800 cards can play the HQ mode with decent framerates, then Ati has a problem if they don't have a sm3.0 card asap. Because who wants to buy a Xxxx then?

So i think we'll see R520 at E3 with Valve. :)

Real solid point there. Would definitely suggest that any delay is driven by more significant concerns than just playing head games with NV. But then the ATI/Valve relationship has never seemed to quite line up timing-wise, has it? :LOL:
 
If its true that ATI's MVP needs special motherboards to work then could the delay be based on when those mobo's will be ready?

Seems like ATI is stuck in a bit of a tight spot here.

The R520 needs to be able to beat Nvidias current SLI. If it can't do it with a single card then I'm sure they will wait until MVP is ready before launching.

No point in launching a new flagship SM3.0 card only to have Nvidia say, meh, our SLI is still faster.


Bah, I'm waiting for this entire mess to clear itself up before I even think of upgrading anything at this point, besides my current card is running everything fine at this point.
 
Moose said:
No point in launching a new flagship SM3.0 card only to have Nvidia say, meh, our SLI is still faster.

I think the real bind, to borrow your word, is that ATI needs an SM 3.0 card now (yesterday), but they have tacked on so many other things like AMR/MVP/SLI that they may have bitten off more than they can chew. It would be very bad for ATI to release R520 without robust MVP support, where 'robust' refers to the entire platform being known and demoed. Of course they also have the transitional problem to SM 3.0 where 3.0 will do well to promote their new line, but will hurt sales of their SM 2.0 line.

If ATI are having some problems, I think they may be best served by playing it cool. Launching an SM 3.0 series now would be great for top-end and glamor (as long as it demolishes NV40), but this may force R4xx into a position where it will not bring adequate returns on investment. Then again, they could reserve the new launch glitz to only top of the line while letting the middle and lower segment products remain from the R4xx series.

But bleh...this is all from a business POV. As a hardware enthusiast I could care less and just want to see their latest and greatest ASAP. (same goes for Nvidia)
 
lopri said:
Does this show ATI's lack of interest in customer satisfaction and their general incompetence? Definitely.

I feel like an idiot waiting for this part. R520 had been delayed from spring launch to June launch, now it's delayed till fall since rumours regarding G70 have been around.

As if nvidia hasn't done any of what you criticize ATI for. Nvidia has let lose a whole lot less information about the G70 then ATI has about the R520 and it certainly looks like the reason for this is so that nvidia can release their part after the R520 with better performance.

I think you're getting a bit too worked up over one rumor from a source that is known to be correct only about fifty percent of the time.
 
ANova said:
I think you're getting a bit too worked up over one rumor from a source that is known to be correct only about fifty percent of the time.

heh, for all we know ATI leaked the info themselves to get everyone worked up about it and lull Nvidia to sleep a bit.
 
overclocked said:
I belive/guess that ATI are having some problems with the process change to 90nm. I say that because EVERYONE have had problems with the 90nm node.
I don't agree. Intel had problems with 90nm, but AMD? Actually power consumption went down for 90nm AMD CPUs. So in my book AMD had a nice process change to 90nm.

Of course when changing processes there always may be some delays and slight problems. But as far as I remember, AMD's 90nm process change all in all was smooth. It was even so smooth that AMD now claims it would be able to switch to 65nm at the same time as Intel. Something which never happened before.
 
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