Questions about NV30

[ChrisK]

Heh...

Reverend,

Do these corporate representatives explicitly state that it's because of Kristof being involved in B3D that they are not so forthcoming in handing out cards early (or at all), or is it because they cannot expect to have yet another cheerleader in this case, but instead a more critical view on the technology?

If it's actually the latter, then you also ought to draw a line to the fact that you're asking for questions here and not anywhere else, that more knowledgeable people post at B3D and not at voodooextreme.

The whole thing just might be a bit, well, ambivalent, you know...

Chris

 

[LittlePenny]

Not that you guys care what I think, but is this an argument over intellectual rights or page hits?

 

[Mephisto]

Beyond3D has a very valuable resource, its forum, which falls under Beyond3D copyright - as it is our community.

Sorry Kristof, from a legal point of view, this is wrong.

You can't even copyright every stuff you write your own. There has been adjudications where the author of a technical article wasn't able to hold a copyright, because the article was only based on public availabe technical information and lacked any originality. So going this "copyright" route might be a bit tricky. That comment is a bit strange anyway, a forum is only as good as its people, not as its host.

Nevertheless, I don't agree with the way Reverend is cruising in here and I don't agree with the way only "company friendly" questions are sent in for interviews.

 

[Tahir2]

WRT to what you just stated Mephisto yep you are right I think.. however B3D has the right to modify/delete posts and ban people.

Then again in England if you write an essay for college the copyright for your work belongs to the college. ... .very strange and immoral if you ask me.

There is of course a third option no one has mentioned so far WRT Kristof being a liability... Kristof could resign his post at PowerVR and then all of a sudden NVIDIA won't have any problems with sending B3D any information/products to review.




Honestly I dont believe that excuse anyway.. a better excuse is the B3D audience and its size.

 

[martrox]

This is sad….so sad. I have followed Rev for a long time, and remember his attempts to push away the BS that nVidia PR spews. Remember the Voodoo 5, Rev? Now I don’t know what to think, except to see the Reverend in a totally different light – and it’s not a particularly good light. Now, don’t get me wrong, I own 7 nVidia cards. However, I still have major problems with how they conduct themselves – without a great deal of ethics. I have always felt the Rev was one of the more ethical people on the Net. As far as VE is concerned, I have no respect for that outfit since it was stolen away from Billy Wilson last year. And VE is not half the site it used to be. If fact, this infighting kind of reminds me of that, in a way. At least Rev didn’t do what was done there.

Rev, if you have problems with B3D and felt you needed to leave, that is understandable. However, this kind of display was not necessary. It helps no one, especially you.

 

[pascal]

I see some strong emotions going on here.
The best thing to do now is calm down.

IMHO:
- B3D is one of the most unbiased site around.
- B3D staff are easy going and fair.
- B3D regulars are very smart
- Simple PR stuff will not help much B3D.
- B3D site/staff must have the priority to any question, but IF the B3D site is not interrested in the questions then it could be used by other sites with the credits and links (there is no IF in the pool).
- I hope that IHVs will understand more and more B3D way.

Reverend, I used to see your skills as a good complement to other staff skills. I hope you will do a great job at VE.

 

[MikeC]

Let's see if NVNEws' GaryT interview gets proper accreditation (well, of course it will now that I have mentioned this).

I was excited upon seeing the title of this thread and never expected having to read a snide remark directed at nV News. It's ashame to see the deterioration of the 3D Technology and Hardware forum continuing and agree that this thread should be deleted.

 

[MikeC]

Re.. Ben6 and his pics he got from nvidia that were rendered on an NV30.. What a pile of crap.. Its getting like this for me.. its not so much that I think ATI is better then nvidia.. but that I just plain outright have a distain for what they are doing.

ben6 - "I misunderstood some of the captions sent with the pictures."

 

[Guest]

Re.. Ben6 and his pics he got from nvidia that were rendered on an NV30.. What a pile of crap.. Its getting like this for me.. its not so much that I think ATI is better then nvidia.. but that I just plain outright have a distain for what they are doing.

ben6 - "I misunderstood some of the captions sent with the pictures."

Yeah but I think a lot of people and sites also "misunderstood" the captions sent with the pictures. Although never once have I seen the photos captions I did however see many threads on multiple sites suggesting that the pictures had in fact been rendered on nv30 hardware.. This in combination with the rumor that nvidias CEO did say in fact (at their second from last CC) that the nv30 had indeed been taped out lead everyone(Including Ben6) to conclude that in fact they had been rendered on a nv30.

I am not going to turn this into a thread regarding the nv30 tape out debacle. Just what did it say beside the pictures that lead everyone to believe that they were rendered on an nv30? Something like "This is rendered on the nv30, but not really" the not really statement being in extremely small print. I think it is safe to say that the info was a blatent effort to spread talk about the nv30 vapourware and wash out excitment for the Radeon 9700.. Ben6 should have been able to read the captions correctly. Thats my take on this subject.

 

[Dave]

Rev,

I'm just going to say this. Your doing all of this is extremely unprofessional and reflects poorly on yourself and who you represent. I would venture so far as to say you've slandered this site and some of the people on it by making untrue statements about events that have conspired and the relations with IHVs and B3D. I'm making these statements more as an outside person who is aware of what has transpired, being that I had no involvement in any of it.

 

[Dave]

Sorry Rev, but I don't agree with you at all. NVIDIA has a problem with B3D from our history with them. Back in the day, we called them out and we were right and they were wrong. Pure and simple. They didn't like it, so they hold a grudge.

Matrox has never had an issue with B3D. Even to this day they still don't. They are actually fans of the site.

ATI.. Well we've never had a lot of success with them in the US anyway. This was even before Kristof and I started at IHVs though.

We've always been in good with 3DLabs. I think its obvious we still don't have a problem with them.

Were always good with 3dfx.
Were (and still are) always good with PVR and ST.
Were in good with Diamond and S3 back in the day.
Were always in good with Hercules.

etc, ect, etc.

We've had are scuffles, but Rev, this just seems like you are out to get B3D right now. Say what you want, but thats the case as it seems here. Things weren't how you made them out to be and you weren't disrespected. Just calling it like I see it.

 

[Dave]

Sorry Rev, but I don't agree with you at all. NVIDIA has a problem with B3D from our history with them. Back in the day, we called them out and we were right and they were wrong. Pure and simple. They didn't like it, so they hold a grudge.

Matrox has never had an issue with B3D. Even to this day they still don't. They are actually fans of the site.

ATI.. Well we've never had a lot of success with them in the US anyway. This was even before Kristof and I started at IHVs though.

We've always been in good with 3DLabs. I think its obvious we still don't have a problem with them.

Were always good with 3dfx.
Were (and still are) always good with PVR and ST.
Were in good with Diamond and S3 back in the day.
Were always in good with Hercules.

etc, ect, etc.

We've had are scuffles, but Rev, this just seems like you are out to get B3D right now. Say what you want, but thats the case as it seems here. Things weren't how you made them out to be and you weren't disrespected. Just calling it like I see it.

 

[Dave]

Sorry Rev, but I don't agree with you at all. NVIDIA has a problem with B3D from our history with them. Back in the day, we called them out and we were right and they were wrong. Pure and simple. They didn't like it, so they hold a grudge.

Matrox has never had an issue with B3D. Even to this day they still don't. They are actually fans of the site.

ATI.. Well we've never had a lot of success with them in the US anyway. This was even before Kristof and I started at IHVs though.

We've always been in good with 3DLabs. I think its obvious we still don't have a problem with them.

Were always good with 3dfx.
Were (and still are) always good with PVR and ST.
Were in good with Diamond and S3 back in the day.
Were always in good with Hercules.

etc, ect, etc.

We've had are scuffles, but Rev, this just seems like you are out to get B3D right now. Say what you want, but thats the case as it seems here. Things weren't how you made them out to be and you weren't disrespected. Just calling it like I see it.

 

[Dave]

This is really unprofessional Rev. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Dave]

Rev,

This is really unprofessional and does not speak well of you or the site you not represent. Not only that, but you are posting false and misleading information.

 

[Nagorak]

I did not want to reveal the reason why I wanted emails instead of posts here but since I no longer care for the questions that may be posted here, here goes :

NVIDIA do not like B3D. I have stated the reasons here and in other threads. B3D has staff with a competing IHV. B3D has two staff that has always appeared to doubt NVIDIA (as opposed to actually bashing NVIDIA). They are Wavey and John. IMO, they still doubt NVIDIA regardless of what NVIDIA comes up with. Now, as Kristof said in an email, being publicly negative about something is usually more interesting than being positive, the latter of which usually means spewing forth the same PR materials given by IHVs, but this is something different. It goes back to the days of Wavey and John being 3dfx fans, which usually means not quite liking NVIDIA. It is still the case IMO although it may be to a lesser degree (since they don't have 3dfx no more!).

In any case, I didn't want posts here because I don't want NVIDIA to check this forum and see this thread with all the potential questions. If I were to ask questions based on what is posted here, they may refuse to answer it solely because it appeared on Beyond3D. You may think it is extreme but I honestly don't care if it is extreme or not - I just want good questions answered without any preconceived notions. When I do properly credit B3D for some of the questions asked, and if NV doesn't like it, I'll handle it myself.

And alexsok, I take anything I do seriously, especially when it involves folks I consider as friends.

No offense, but Nvidia sound like real assholes. You don't win doubters over by shunning them. I guess I can understand your desire to interview Nvidia, but I'm glad I'm not in your position. Lately I'm really hoping the NV30 is a bust, not because I'm some ATi fanboy or anything like that, but just because Nvidia needs to be taught some humility. Their attitude just really gets on my nerves and its why I don't buy their cards, it has nothing to do with price, performance, features or anything else.

 

[Nagorak]

I did not want to reveal the reason why I wanted emails instead of posts here but since I no longer care for the questions that may be posted here, here goes :

NVIDIA do not like B3D. I have stated the reasons here and in other threads. B3D has staff with a competing IHV. B3D has two staff that has always appeared to doubt NVIDIA (as opposed to actually bashing NVIDIA). They are Wavey and John. IMO, they still doubt NVIDIA regardless of what NVIDIA comes up with. Now, as Kristof said in an email, being publicly negative about something is usually more interesting than being positive, the latter of which usually means spewing forth the same PR materials given by IHVs, but this is something different. It goes back to the days of Wavey and John being 3dfx fans, which usually means not quite liking NVIDIA. It is still the case IMO although it may be to a lesser degree (since they don't have 3dfx no more!).

In any case, I didn't want posts here because I don't want NVIDIA to check this forum and see this thread with all the potential questions. If I were to ask questions based on what is posted here, they may refuse to answer it solely because it appeared on Beyond3D. You may think it is extreme but I honestly don't care if it is extreme or not - I just want good questions answered without any preconceived notions. When I do properly credit B3D for some of the questions asked, and if NV doesn't like it, I'll handle it myself.

And alexsok, I take anything I do seriously, especially when it involves folks I consider as friends.

No offense, but Nvidia sound like real assholes. You don't win doubters over by shunning them. I guess I can understand your desire to interview Nvidia, but I'm glad I'm not in your position. Lately I'm really hoping the NV30 is a bust, not because I'm some ATi fanboy or anything like that, but just because Nvidia needs to be taught some humility. Their attitude just really gets on my nerves and its why I don't buy their cards, it has nothing to do with price, performance, features or anything else.

 

[Nagorak]

I did not want to reveal the reason why I wanted emails instead of posts here but since I no longer care for the questions that may be posted here, here goes :

NVIDIA do not like B3D. I have stated the reasons here and in other threads. B3D has staff with a competing IHV. B3D has two staff that has always appeared to doubt NVIDIA (as opposed to actually bashing NVIDIA). They are Wavey and John. IMO, they still doubt NVIDIA regardless of what NVIDIA comes up with. Now, as Kristof said in an email, being publicly negative about something is usually more interesting than being positive, the latter of which usually means spewing forth the same PR materials given by IHVs, but this is something different. It goes back to the days of Wavey and John being 3dfx fans, which usually means not quite liking NVIDIA. It is still the case IMO although it may be to a lesser degree (since they don't have 3dfx no more!).

In any case, I didn't want posts here because I don't want NVIDIA to check this forum and see this thread with all the potential questions. If I were to ask questions based on what is posted here, they may refuse to answer it solely because it appeared on Beyond3D. You may think it is extreme but I honestly don't care if it is extreme or not - I just want good questions answered without any preconceived notions. When I do properly credit B3D for some of the questions asked, and if NV doesn't like it, I'll handle it myself.

And alexsok, I take anything I do seriously, especially when it involves folks I consider as friends.

No offense, but Nvidia sound like real jerks. You don't win doubters over by shunning them. I guess I can understand your desire to interview Nvidia, but I'm glad I'm not in your position. Lately I'm really hoping the NV30 is a bust, not because I'm some ATi fanboy or anything like that, but just because Nvidia needs to be taught some humility. Their attitude just really gets on my nerves and its why I don't buy their cards, it has nothing to do with price, performance, features or anything else.

 

[Dave]

....

 

[Pete]

Pascal's response seems to be the most reasoned and untainted of personal bitterness here. It's worth repeating:

I see some strong emotions going on here.
The best thing to do now is calm down.

IMHO:
- B3D is one of the most unbiased site around.
- B3D staff are easy going and fair.
- B3D regulars are very smart
- Simple PR stuff will not help much B3D.
- B3D site/staff must have the priority to any question, but IF the B3D site is not interrested in the questions then it could be used by other sites with the credits and links (there is no IF in the pool).
- I hope that IHVs will understand more and more B3D way.

Reverend, I used to see your skills as a good complement to other staff skills. I hope you will do a great job at VE.

I suggest, before anyone else escalates this misunderstanding (one in a recently growing series in this forum, fanned in no small part by the recent influx of non-professionals), they hit preview instead of reply, and pause 15 minutes to read their reply before posting. Is it necessary to further excacerbate the situation? To further insult and belittle people over innocent and minor misunderstandings?

Rev, I appreciate why you asked the B3D crowd for questions. It should be obvious to any regular, and quite a few have articulated why in this thread: you simply won't get the insight of the many professionals and dedicated fans (not fanbois, those who substitute reason with emotion) on other forums. Now, I don't visit VE's fora at all, but judging from the funny but slightly immature (hell, I still loved it) humor Billy infused it with, I don't expect the same level of interest and technical understanding as here. So you were right in coming here. The problem started when you asked for Q's in private; and though you later explained why (nVidia's grudge), people who haven't followed you as long as some of us have may mistrust your requests. Obviously everyone here will read your interview anyway, and if someone sees one of their questions asked but uncredited, they'll let everyone know. You should understand some of the mistrust, though. If the site is having trouble covering its hosting costs, then you should be especially appreciative of the desire to keep B3D's community, the one thing that weathered the sites many transitions, exclusively for B3D's benefit. On the flip side, we should understand that pimping B3D on a site such as VE, which will undoubtedly garner more hits, has a definite positive side (witness the 17,000+ page views in a recent NV30 thread).

So, Rev, I hope the outbursts here don't turn you off as much as they did Ben; if you feel the need to step away, consider a temporary rather than permanent break. I think you're thicker-skinned than that, but consider this some support. The rest of us, let's not turn this into a turf war, and allow Dave and Marco and the gang to decide what's best for B3D.

To all: there's no need to criticize people; let's restrict the criticism to ideas.

(BTW, not to restart old fires, but what's this GaryT-NVNews thing? )