Questions about NV30

[Reverend]

In a couple of days I am expecting a call from NVIDIA's product manager. He will be briefing me on NV30. For Voodooextreme of course. And under NDA of course. Quite a bit behind the other regular/famous sites in this regard but hardware at Voodooextreme has taken on a more important priority.

I have my own set of questions based on NVIDIA's official CineFX pdf. I do not want to ask him questions based on what is not in the pdf nor what has been spread around various forums which consist of nothing more than rumors or thoughts-of-wonder (if you know what I mean).

If anyone of you have any questions based on the official CineFX paper, please email me. I will not ask any questions posted here (however interesting they may be). Maybe the mods here can lock this thread.

Again, I work for Voodooextreme, not this site. My email is [**removed - see below and vote in POLL**]

Thanks and apologies to the Beyond3D staff for my posting this thread.

[edit]Oh, the reason is that it's for Voodooextreme's NV30 preview.

 

[Mephisto]

I will not ask any questions posted here (however interesting they may be).

<shaking head>

This isn't a very kind of you, using this community here to get input and at the same time make this input proprietary? May be other webmasters lurking around here will have the ability to ask NVIDIAs marketing department in the future, so they have to start their own thread?

 

[Kristof]

Err... I guess, as long as you very clearly mention that the questions come from Beyond3D regulars (+ link), it might be kinda OK... then again we have been pretty upset before when sites end up pillaging interview questions from our forum and then score lots of hits.

Not sure about this... actually shouldn't you be asking this on the Voodoo Extreme Forums ?

Try asking for questions here:

http://forums.ve3d.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

Please POST questions here, don't email them, this way these questions are actually identifiable as Beyond3D questions.

 

[Reverend]

If you're shaking your head(s), I'm shaking mine.

In previous articles of mine at Beyond3D where questions (about anything) are raised by regulars here, I mention it as such in my Beyond3D articles. If you think this is because I "worked" for B3D (then), it wasn't the reason. Think I'm stupid to come up with an article where some of the contents are obviously based on questions sent to me by email from the forum regulars here and then stand the chance of these forum regulars saying "Geez... that Reverend's article is based on my question to him and he doesn't even credit me not B3D..." .

I stated outright that I work for VE and this is for a VE article... unlike other sites that asks quesions here (or steal them) and never even stated what I stated.

Please do not treat me as an enemy just cause I am no longer with Beyond3D.

Kristof, I don't ask the questions at VE coz the VE audience are not 3D savvy. Everyone knows that... why ask me this at all?

If you don't trust me to do the right thing, nor treat me as a friend (this is especially to the Beyond3D staff), then don't bother. In fact, I won't bother at all. I sure as hell now won't ask questions based on what's posted here

That Bitboyz thread wouldn't even have gotten that many views if I hadn't plugged B3D, which I did as a favour to B3D. F*cking Jeez.

I am disappointed in Kristof, especially that monkey image of his. Maybe it's time for me to hang out the dirty laundry.

 

[Tahir2]

Well my first question:

You [NVIDIA] deliberately mislead the media at SIGGRAPH giving the presentation on Cg littered with unannounced NV3x specs. At around the same time, you [NVIDIA] began sending webmasters and other web journalists pictures of rendered 3D graphics in an attempt to mislead these webmasters into thinking these pictures were rendered on NV30 HARDWARE - whilst you, yourself never EXPLICITLY stated that they were.

How can you defend yourself from this accusation?


Rev, if you don't like my question don't use it, naturally. To everyone else this is my question and my opinion. I don't wany any debates on it.

And I agree, everyone who wants to ask questions should post them here like Kristof mentioned.

 

[Reverend]

*removed by Reverend*

 

[Tahir2]

Oops..
This is turning into an internal struggle now...

 

[Kristof]

Rev, I am not going to launch into a big discussion about this, I emailed the B3D staff and so far 3 members have an issue with this topic... so don't just be dissapointed in me.

I was kind enough to leave the message and point at the VoodooExtreme forum, your websites resource. And I have turned this into a poll so the regulars can decide about it. Sounds pretty fair to me, I'm giving this a chance.

I am not going to remove the email address more than once... I say : people vote. Beyond3D has a very valuable resource, its forum, which falls under Beyond3D copyright - as it is our community. We have had situations before where B3D planned an interview, used the forum for questions only to find that another website grabbed the questions submitted them and got them answered and published before us. Not really nice to experience...

What if B3D wants to do a similar interview ? Should we just allow any site to come and ask for input here ? I, personally, see this as a form of abuse of the B3D community.

But I am open to discussion and have thus turned this into a poll. If people think its fair to allow this then vote accordingly. I don't want a fight. And this is not just for Reverend, who we all like and love, this is a general concept.

 

[Reverend]

*removed by Reverend*

 

[Reverend]

As a favour, please delete this thread so that if I do come up with questions that are the same as those that may be posted here, I won't be crucified.

I had emailed you, Marco and Wavey yesterday about stuff like discussing VE's backoffice which is really neat (well, neater than B3D's) as well as trying to hint to Wavey if he'd need any help with NV30 material but the emails got returned by VE's postmaster (PIE.com). I am you guys' friend, I hold B3D dear but I had to leave because the site wasn't what I wanted to do anymore as well as my disappointment with that one staff I mentioned.

 

[alexsok]

There is no "internal" struggle - I am not part of B3D.

On eof B3D's staff is selfish. He doesn't appreciate the contacts and relations I have in the industry, which is what is truly valuable to any website wrt any one of its staff. He is jealous that I approached NVIDIA for a NV30, which he deemed as "getting it for yourself", when he doesn't see the big picture, which means that it goes to "Beyond3D" regardless. NVIDIA is wary of B3D because it sees that some of its staff as well as many forum participants as anti-NV. I have history with a senior manager at NV. I used this for B3D. B3D's webmaster sees it as greedy on my part (as well as not satisfied that he, as the webmaster is not getting a NV30 when I may myself) when he loses sight of the big picture (it goes to B3D regardless). The manger would give it to me but not to B3D. That means no one at B3D will preview a NV30 except me. Doesn't matter really... it would have gone to "B3D" anyway. But nooo, that staff thinks he should be the one to do such a preview. Who's selfish and greedy?

I have a feeling this post will be deleted... so for those that read this b4 that happens, you know the story. I don't like posting all this (there are lots more spicy stuff) but Kristof's post, and subsequent removal of my email plus that stupid/useless poll, got to me. I'd counted myself as all the B3D staff's friend (even that guy above)...

I think u take it WAY too seriously!

Cheer up dude!

 

[Tahir2]

I am voting yes on the poll.

I dont see voodooextreme.com as a competing site. I, naturally dont know what has happened in the past to lead to this reaction however I do understand where Kristof is coming from as well.

I did an interview with another graphics company in the past and enlisted the help of several people. All the questions I asked in the interview came with proper accreditation.

I only found it slightly unusual that you asked for the questions to be emailed only. Surely it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether they are emailed or posted here Reverend?

B3D is a valuable resource as you have realised otherwise you would have not posted this thread in the first place. And the issue of emailing the questions or posting them on this forum seems petty in the long run.

Your interview is soon so I doubt anyone can get steal the questions as has happened in the past if this was your fear Rev.

You have to see also that the thread has remained and your email address has not been removed a second time. So, it would be good to see any past tensions/events forgotten once and for all.

What do you say? You guys made a good team - just because you are working for voodooextreme.com does not mean you are no longer part of that team (that goes to both Kristof, Rev and anyone else that might be involved).

An open source is more benificial to us (the readers) but there does need to be some degree of moderation - which is what I believe Kristof was trying to do... (that is disregarding anything that could have happened in the past).

Good luck with your interview Rev. If I think of anymore questions I would prefer to post them here if you don't mind.

 

[Guest]

There is no "internal" struggle - I am not part of B3D.

On eof B3D's staff is selfish. He doesn't appreciate the contacts and relations I have in the industry, which is what is truly valuable to any website wrt any one of its staff. He is jealous that I approached NVIDIA for a NV30, which he deemed as "getting it for yourself", when he doesn't see the big picture, which means that it goes to "Beyond3D" regardless. NVIDIA is wary of B3D because it sees that some of its staff as well as many forum participants as anti-NV. I have history with a senior manager at NV. I used this for B3D. B3D's webmaster sees it as greedy on my part (as well as not satisfied that he, as the webmaster is not getting a NV30 when I may myself) when he loses sight of the big picture (it goes to B3D regardless). The manger would give it to me but not to B3D. That means no one at B3D will preview a NV30 except me. Doesn't matter really... it would have gone to "B3D" anyway. But nooo, that staff thinks he should be the one to do such a preview. Who's selfish and greedy?

I have a feeling this post will be deleted... so for those that read this b4 that happens, you know the story. I don't like posting all this (there are lots more spicy stuff) but Kristof's post, and subsequent removal of my email plus that stupid/useless poll, got to me. I'd counted myself as all the B3D staff's friend (even that guy above)...

Ouch.... hot topic. Hrm seems Beyond 3D is being wipped by nvidia to a degree. Why would nvidia be so silly as to assume that Beyond 3D is anti-nvidia just because a few of its members are? Surely that would disqualify most sites or no? Nice to know how nvidia works... no surprise though. "If your forum members aren't positive about nvidia we will deprive you of info... bla bla bla...." what a pile of crap. On that note I would expect my post to be deleted by Beyond 3D for fear of appearing biased. Reverend I think that you are taking extreme liberties with your membership here by forcing this issue and this is not fare to Beyond 3D IMHO. If you are not staffed with Beyond 3D that is a shame really. I thought you had a lot of insightfull posts. You may be forced to use NVnet ..BTW where the hell is nvnet? BTW I am copying every word said in this thread I can find..

EDIT: Does that mean that Voodooextreme staff and forum members will be purely bias for nvidia and their products? Come on man ... besides nvidia is just making some here look like fools.. Re.. Ben6 and his pics he got from nvidia that were rendered on an NV30.. What a pile of crap.. Its getting like this for me.. its not so much that I think ATI is better then nvidia.. but that I just plain outright have a distain for what they are doing.

 

[Reverend]

I did not want to reveal the reason why I wanted emails instead of posts here but since I no longer care for the questions that may be posted here, here goes :

NVIDIA do not like B3D. I have stated the reasons here and in other threads. B3D has staff with a competing IHV. B3D has two staff that has always appeared to doubt NVIDIA (as opposed to actually bashing NVIDIA). *sentences removed by Reverend*. Now, as Kristof said in an email, being publicly negative about something is usually more interesting than being positive, the latter of which usually means spewing forth the same PR materials given by IHVs, but this is something different. *sentences removed by Reverend*

In any case, I didn't want posts here because I don't want NVIDIA to check this forum and see this thread with all the potential questions. If I were to ask questions based on what is posted here, they may refuse to answer it solely because it appeared on Beyond3D. You may think it is extreme but I honestly don't care if it is extreme or not - I just want good questions answered without any preconceived notions. When I do properly credit B3D for some of the questions asked, and if NV doesn't like it, I'll handle it myself.

And alexsok, I take anything I do seriously, especially when it involves folks I consider as friends.

 

[jb]

Its not my place to say this and I dont know the story just other than what I have read in the post.

But i got the impression that you wanted to do something different that what you had been doing. Then you get a job over at VE doing about the same thing So when I fist read the David K interview when it was posted I saw your new postion and though, "gee rev thats kind of the same thing you were doing before". Like I said I dont now all the details so dont yell at me. This is just my observation. And I wish you the best.


Also I dont think B3D should smooze or be nice to any vendor. If they have seem a little anit-NV maybe they have had their reasons (K2 PDF for example). I want B3D to remain fair yet honest to every vendor. So far they "seem" to have done that. If nV is worried about too many negitive post then maybe they should prove us wrong by their actions..as the saying goes actions speak louder than words.....

 

[Kristof]

I hardly ever do moderating and deleting topics/posts is definitely not my preferred method of operation. I prefer the "post explenation and lock"-method unless a post is completely unacceptable and off-topic (spam, flooding, etc).

I think the poll I added (at the same time as I removed the email address in the first post) is a fair move. Simply deleting the topic would have been much easier but did not seem fair to me.

I think most people can understand the issue at hand. A little email beforehand explaining your intentions clearly could have solved this whole issue IMHO.

K-

 

[Reverend]

I think most people can understand the issue at hand. A little email beforehand explaining your intentions clearly could have solved this whole issue IMHO.

Perhaps you should've said this prior to your monkey image. You extended no respect with that image.

I understand *your* issue (and it is your issue... I think the rest, i.e. non-B3D staff, just likes reading good material, stolen or not, here or elsewhere... not that I'm advocating stealong material!) but I stated outright my intentions and positions - folks with brains will know if they should email me with NV30 questions.

You simply showed no respect. It may have been different if it hadn't been "Reverend" (although you'll now say it wouldn't be any different!).[/quote]

 

[Guest]

In any case, I didn't want posts here because I don't want NVIDIA to check this forum and see this thread with all the potential questions. If I were to ask questions based on what is posted here, they may refuse to answer it solely because it appeared on Beyond3D. You may think it is extreme but I honestly don't care if it is extreme or not - I just want good questions answered without any preconceived notions. When I do properly credit B3D for some of the questions asked, and if NV doesn't like it, I'll handle it myself.

And alexsok, I take anything I do seriously, especially when it involves folks I consider as friends.

So now you have an excuse to not use misae's question of which IMHO was a dammed good one.. Also you could ask just what the CEO was trying to do when he told investors at their CC that the "nv30" had taped out. I don't find the staff here bias against nvidia presently in fact they appear to be far less bias then others are or will be.(re Vodooextreme.) Now Beyond 3D is being forced to take a bias FOR nvidia or else be deprived of interviews etc..

Also you are pigeon holing them as a fan site of another IHV... Nothing could be further from the truth. But on the other hand I want to thank you Reverend for giving us a sneek peek about Nvidia behind the scenes ... Reverend you should take your interview opprotunity to ask difficult questions, that should be made clear. Not about the nv30 vapourware stuff.. but real questions about real things.

 

[RussSchultz]

Well, actually, MISAE's question has rather poor chances of being answered to begin with. Insulting and/or insinuating misdeeds (especially when its based entirely on speculation) is the quickest way to get your interview cancelled. IHVs (all of them) don't do interviews for purely altruistic reasons, remember.

Personally, I can completely understand why NVidia is hesitant to give out "sensitive" hardware to B3D. One staff member currently works at a competing IHV and one worked at two competing IHVs. I'm suprised they get any sort of advanced looks at hardware or specifications from any companies out there.

"Borrowing" forum members is a bit strange, but at least he was upfront about it.

 

[Kristof]

Now, as Kristof said in an email, being publicly negative about something is usually more interesting than being positive, the latter of which usually means spewing forth the same PR materials given by IHVs, but this is something different.

I'd like to explain this "quote" a bit more so people don't get the wrong idea. One of the things I learned as part of my education was to always question your sources and information: is what you read correct, is there a better way, did they mention everything ? Whenever I have written an article in the past I have always tried to follow this strategy. One of the things I doubted in a past article was the effectiveness of fixed function TnL, at the time I pointed out its limitations and indicated that we needed something much more flexible... today we have vertex shaders and I believe that that actually proves the point I made at the time. This is not a question of being negative, this is a question of analysing a topic... obviously for marketing this kind of articles falls into the "they don't say we rule/rock"-category. Ideally all journalists should follow the strategy mentioned above, unfortunatly very few websites are actually run by journalists with integrety, most websites are either fan based, or money-driven (if we do not please this hardware company we might not get hardware/information next time, meaning we do not get the hits, meaning we do not make money, meaning we go out of business). Beyond3D is not a fan site, Beyond3D is not acting nice to make money (and believe me that makes things difficult with hosting as you have all experienced over the past year). And really who wants yet another site that puts the PR Docs in HTML without thinking about it and asking some real questions. The day companies do all the thinking for us is a bad day, and this is a real risk due to money influences these days.

About me working for a competitor, yes I do, and I have not written a review ever since. I do not tell others what to write, I can not change framerates or features that a product has. If a product rocks there is **nothing** I can do about that and I have no intention of doing so. I am trying to get back to writing "general" technology articles. I am currently working on a vertex shader article - general and non company/technology specific.

Beyond3D is about discussion, about questioning, about learning to think about it all for yourself. We welcome all feedback as is yet again proven by me making a poll out of this.