Quality, performance 10/100 switch?

[RussSchultz]

I used to think they were all the same, but I bought a D-Link switch to isolate my media server and a networked media player to keep the traffic between the two, and it sucked worse than having it connected to my whole network.

Anyways, does anybody know someplace that actually does some benchmarks with switches? I checked Anand and Tom's and couldn't find anything...

 

[AlphaWolf]

I think I saw something from pcmag a while back.

<edit>meh I can't seem to find it now

 

[wireframe]

I used to think they were all the same, but I bought a D-Link switch to isolate my media server and a networked media player to keep the traffic between the two, and it sucked worse than having it connected to my whole network.

What exactly is the problem? Were you using a dumb-hub before the switch or what?

Anyways, does anybody know someplace that actually does some benchmarks with switches? I checked Anand and Tom's and couldn't find anything...

These are pretty difficult to come by. Mainly, I think, because these are rather simple pieces of equipment and "just work".

Maybe if you shared more details about the configuration people on here could be more helpful. One thing to make sure is to not have "Media type" forced on any of the "hosts". Set them all to auto and then examine them to see if they connect at their correct speed.

Have you tried using different physical ports on the switch?

Could just be a faulty switch.

Sorry I cannot be of more help. Give some more details about your particular situation and I will try my best.

 

[RussSchultz]

The current topology is:

server, two pc's, printer connected to a DLINK 10/100 8 port switch, which is turn connected to Linksys wireless router, which is connected to cable modem, and the media set top box.

            ________
Server-----|        |
PC1--------|Switch 1|--------------Router-----------Cable modem
PC2--------|        |                 |
Printer ---|________|                 |
                                 Set Top Box

I get some choppy playback of ISOs over the network with that configuration.

So, I bought a 5 port DLink 10/100 switch, and connected it...

            ________
           |        |
PC1--------|Switch 1|--------------Router-----------Cable modem
PC2--------|        |                 |
Printer ---|________|                 |
                                      |
                                  Switch 2
                                  |      |         
                              server    set top box

And playback got worse...much worse.

I also disconnected switch 2 from the router (so the entire network to the devices was server, switch2, set top box) and that didnt' get any better.

I tried changing the ports on switch 2, different cables, etc.

I've read that d-link switches are pretty crappy, so I'm wondering what a good one is.

 

[wireframe]

I don't think D-Links small SOHO switches are any worse than others out there. It is more likely that you got a dud. There is no reason even the crappiest switch out there should not be able to give you full blast on two ports. If there are any corners to be cut it would most likely show when you have all 8 ports going full throttle on it, but even then, 1600Mbps ( 8 ports * 100Mbps * 2 full duplex) is quite trivial these days.

That said, from what I gather D-Link is a bit of a scrappy company, focusing more on lower prices than actual value. They are not alone.

You may want to try connecting two computers through the switch (only) and running a bandwidth test. Using Window's SMB with Windows 2000 and higher should net you around 8.5 MB/sec. You said you had the occasional hiccup with the original setup, so I would expect this to be the same with a new switch. In other words, you may be exceeding the 8.5MB/sec barrier and there is no buffering. Could that be a possibility?

If you are going to pick up a new switch I can recommend you 3com switches. USRobotics may also be OK, as would Netgear and Linksys. However, you may want to take stacking options into account when you buy as different manufacturers use different incompatible stacking methods.

You may want to go with a Linksys that can be stacked with your router. Just be warned that their silver colored gigabit switches are supposedly quite noisy due to a high speed fan. This may have changed with newer revisions, but I doubt it.

Linksys Wired Networking product catalogue for your convenience.

Furthermore, if bandwidth is your thing you may want to look into getting a gigabit switch. 3com has 5 and 8 port models (OfficeConnect Unmanaged Switches) that are quite affordable and fanless (the 16-port model has a "smart" fan). This should give you some room for future growth as well. I am thinking you may even need it now if the ISOs you speak of are DVDs.

My head says go with a 3com (even gigabit), but, as always, you need to figure price and availability into that equation. You would also need a gigabit NIC for the server, but maybe your set top cannot use this. I dunno.

At any rate, to stream a DVD without any pre-caching would most likely require 1000Mbps ethernet. 200Mbps would have been quite enough, but of course it doesn't work in steps like that.

Link to 5-port 3com GigE switch (unmanaged)

BTW, is this Linksys router a WRT54G? If it is, or another model with a built-in switch, have you tried only using that for the Server<-->Set top Box?

To summarize:
1. What you are trying to achieve may be impossible at 100Mbps speeds.
2. You acquired a dud D-Link in the process of trying to fix it.

EDIT:

Wait a minute. What pipe have I been puffing on? DVD is max 10 mega-bit, right? 100Mbps should be plenty. For some reason I keep thinking it is 10MB/sec max transfer rate. SORRY! If a video is skipping it is likely the link is at 10Mbps and not an issue of "scraping the ceiling" of 100Mbps as I wrote above. It is more likely that this scraping is happening at 10Mbps, but this can only be seen by looking at the computers' link speed in Windows or by colored LEDs on the switch (showing 10/100Mbps half/full duplex, etc)

Is your set top device (and all others) really running at 100Mbps?

 

[maaoouud]

I think I see your problem. It looks like you're routing your server through your cable modem router/firewall. That's usually a big mistake, most of them have horrible routing capacity.

So what you want to do is to put the router/firewall on one of the switches, and not between them

PC1-----
PC2-----Switch 1
Printer-- |
|
Server--Switch 2----Router----Cable modem
set top--

I assume you want two switches to minimize the cables you need to have lying around.
If not I doubt you'd need two switches

 

[Rolf N]

As wireframe edited in, the first course of action should be taking a glance at the link speed indicator LEDs on the switch to confirm the network does 100Mbps.
If it doesn't, configure the NICs on both machines to "automatic" link speed.
If it still doesn't, it's a possibility that you're using (very old) cables that don't support the speed and the switch automatically backs down for data integrity reasons.

 

[maaoouud]

Cant find the edit button, sorry about putting this in a separate post.

I started thinking about a reason as to why you had the router between the switches..and I couldn't come up with one, but I thought I'd point you in the right direction if you must have it there. You might try a router with a higher capacity such as the D-LINK DGL-4100 .
I haven't tried it myself but I've heard people using 10/100mbit Internet praising it.
I'm sure there's others out there besides dlink but that's the only one I know of.

 

[maaoouud]

Just realized I cannot edit.

I missed the wireless part of your router
Then there's a another dlink which has wireless. Also I'm not pimping dlink here, I'm just too lazy to scout for other manufacturers.

 

[Florin]

Before you go out and buy anything new, the first thing you really need to check is link speed and particularly duplex mismatches.

For starters, try plugging a PC on either side of your network - ie move PC2 to switch 2 for instance - and then use a utility like netio to measure throughput between PC1 and the server, and PC2 and the server, and between PC1 and PC2. This should consistently give you speeds be near the theoretical maximum in both directions.

If it doesn't, change your PC network interface card settings. With low end unmanaged switches they should typically be set to 'automatic' at all times. You should not force a 100 full duplex setting on any of the PCs unless you have a managed switch with an interface that allows you to force the switch port to the same setting. A combination of an automatic switch port with a forced PC NIC setting will not work reliably.

If it still doesn't give you proper speed between the PCs, you can try swapping out cables and network interface cards if you happen to have those around. Not all NICs perform n-way negotiation ('automatic' setting) reliably. Generally, I recommend Intel Pro/1000 Adapters.

Your router may also have a duplex mismatch on either switch. With consumer hardware and unmanaged switches, you never really know what kind of mess is happening.

Finally, once you have good speed between PCs and servers on either side of your network, try the set top box in the same port on switch 2 that you used for testing. Hopefully it'll be fast too. But again there is the possibility that your set top box just does not negotiate 100 full duplex properly with that switch. It's trial and error territory unfortunately.

 

[see colon]

if i understand you correctly, all of (or most of) your content for your set top box is on your server. what i would do is pick up another NIC for your server (if you have space for it), maybe even a gigibit NIC if you have one in your set top box and run a crossover cable from your server to the set top directly.

 

[Frank]

I agree with maaoouud: You shouldn't route it through 3 switches/router. Use a single switch and connect everything to that. You could use two, but in that case you should connect them together, and attach the router to one of them.

And if you want to buy a good one, I agree with wireframe on the brands.

 

[RussSchultz]

Some of the topology is dictated by physical locations. My cable modem comes in upstairs, and the router is there. Each room has a separate line, and the server and TV are in different rooms (dictating they go up to the router/switch). Currently all my computers are in my office, connected to switch 1 (which connects to the router).

Anyways, I'll try a different switch and see what happens.

Thanks for the input.

 

[maaoouud]

For some reason I assumed that you were using the iso on PC1/PC2. But now that I read it all again you seem to mount them on the set top box.

It could be that your cables are poor and you're trying to run a too high setting on them:
Try forcing the NIC on your server and on your set top box to 10mbit half duplex. Check playback, if it slightly better, try 10mbit full duplex. And then 100mbit half etc.

It could also be the program that you use to mount the iso with really dislikes having the data on a different computer:
Check the manual or the options and see if there's anything that can improve performance when in a network, buffers latency etc.

It could also be your mediaplayer that do not cache enough data from the stream:
Check the options and make sure it's using large enough buffers.


I don't know what iso you are trying to play, but it sounds like a dvd *cough*backup*cough* because you seem reluctant to upload it to the set top box.
Then you could try mounting the iso on the server and share it like a regular dvdrom over the network. Also, fastforwarding etc. should be avoided on mounted dvd images.

And before you run out and buy a new switch, try using your old one between the server and the set top box. At least that'd rule out the switch being at fault.

 

[see colon]

And before you run out and buy a new switch, try using your old one between the server and the set top box. At least that'd rule out the switch being at fault.

i second that. even if the dlink is crap it might be good enough to use for everyday net access on your other computers.

but i would still try to get as direct of a connection between the server and set top as possible, and a couple of gigibit switches and a crossover cable would do you just dandy

 

[RussSchultz]

For some reason I assumed that you were using the iso on PC1/PC2. But now that I read it all again you seem to mount them on the set top box.

Correct.

It could be that your cables are poor and you're trying to run a too high setting on them:
Try forcing the NIC on your server and on your set top box to 10mbit half duplex. Check playback, if it slightly better, try 10mbit full duplex. And then 100mbit half etc.

Sadly, I can only control my server. The set top box has very few controls on this sort of thing.

It could also be the program that you use to mount the iso with really dislikes having the data on a different computer:
Check the manual or the options and see if there's anything that can improve performance when in a network, buffers latency etc.

The settop box is a MediaGate-M35. The manual is pretty sketchy and there's no real tweakability available.

It could also be your mediaplayer that do not cache enough data from the stream:
Check the options and make sure it's using large enough buffers.

It caches about 3-4 seconds. If I hit pause, it will buffer up and the activity light will stop after a few seconds. Hitting play then plays normally for a few seconds and then it begins to choke again.

I don't know what iso you are trying to play, but it sounds like a dvd *cough*backup*cough* because you seem reluctant to upload it to the set top box.

Yes, they're backup DVDs. I'm trying to distribute my DVDs through the house. Some play well, others not so well. The intro to Futurama is the worst case I've found and it has extreme stuttering. I have more DVDs than I can fit on a the largest ATA drive I can get, and I don't really want to buy an ATA drive, plus a $200 set top box for each room I want to distribute video to. I'm certainly considering it, though.

Then you could try mounting the iso on the server and share it like a regular dvdrom over the network. Also, fastforwarding etc. should be avoided on mounted dvd images.

The mediagate can only mount SAMBA drives, it can't publish them.

And before you run out and buy a new switch, try using your old one between the server and the set top box. At least that'd rule out the switch being at fault.

Yeah, I try that this evening.

Also, I'll try a crossover cable to see if that manages to work better.

 

[Frank]

Did you check if all cables are Cat 5, and are connected right? With 10 Mb, you could get away by just connecting each wire to the same pin on both sides regardless. But with 100 Mb, you have to connect them in a specific way: 11233244, with the same numbers being part of the same pair. (And all colors on the same pins on both sides, of course.) That still turns out to be a problem regulary.

 

[Guden Oden]

and a couple of gigibit switches and a crossover cable would do you just dandy

You don't need crossover cables with gigabit hardware, it autodetects which pairs are which. As does some 100mbit equipment too I might add (my Dlink stuff for instance). Crossover cables = teh devil.

 

[RussSchultz]

You don't need crossover cables with gigabit hardware, it autodetects which pairs are which. As does some 100mbit equipment too I might add (my Dlink stuff for instance). Crossover cables = teh devil.

Only hubs/swtiches, I think, autodetect.

I haven't had much luck just connecting two computers with a cable, even though they 10/100.

 

[maaoouud]

The mediagate can only mount SAMBA drives, it can't publish them.

Ah but I meant it the other way around. Mount the iso on the fileserver and then share it as a dvd-drive and connect to it from the set top box. (just like "windows map network drive")
Hopefully it can do that atleast