[PS3] LittleBigPlanet 2

[Shifty Geezer]

MM have definitely improved the framerate. I encountered no tearing in the arcade part of the level. However, they appear to have accomplished this in part by reducing the shadow quality considerably. This wasn't very apparent playing the level, but in create mode the chunky pixelated shadows were very apparent, and IMO more distracting than the tearing. Where LBP2 looked very realistic in stills, now it is less convincing.

Photos can be exported to HDD and they're 640x360, JPEG'd heavily to to ~45kb.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Very cool and very pointless!

Sadly that pretty much sums up the whole LBP experience for me. I just don't really care about a calculator, or some charming but ultimately lacking attempts at recreating a space shooter, Contra or Mirror's Edge when I can just play the infinitely superor originals instead

 

[patsu]

That's because the creation process is a major part of the gameplay, like an open ended puzzle.

For the viewers, it's a little like YouTube.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sadly that pretty much sums up the whole LBP experience for me. I just don't really care about a calculator, or some charming but ultimately lacking attempts at recreating a space shooter...

I can agree about the remakes, I don't understand why Sonic and Mario are constantly recreated save for the enjoyment of the creators, but you're underselling what's possible and will appear. There is potential for, and will be realised, new game flavours. My shooter may not have been as polished as a proper shooter, but it has a new mechanic with the three layers, and could easily be extended to incorporate different play modes like rescue missions in caves.

The games produced won't be comparable to professional quality because that requires an investment of time and effort that doesn't fit in with full-time employment. But it will be an Indie hotbed of creation, like a tier below PSN titles or Xbox Live Indie titles, and showed get a lot of interest from students wanting to create a portfolio. That most people recreate existing IPs just shows that imagining new things is hard for many, plus new IPs get overlooked - same as the rest of the industry - so if you want to get noticed, an awesome Mario clone will get more hits than a unique motion-controlled atmospheric adventure. The scope of LBP2 allows so much though, it's just a matter of people actually creating with it, and for small games you have the option to create a game that doesn't suffer the design issues that we grumble about in other titles. Of all the tanks titles released since the Amiga, not one has captured the spirit of Amiga Tanks that we played 4 player. That's something we can address in LBP2, making our own game that plays exactly how we like. Plus a lot of classic games aren't available now, like Shadow of the Beast. Plenty of 16 bit classics could be created in form in LBP2, allowing a reinventing that brings the old, simple gameplay with a lick of fresh paint. That's a worthwhile experience.

And especially when you consider any entertainment you find from LBP2 levels comes completely free!

 

[Cornsnake]

I've read the list of changes, more tweaks than anything, although with a paused screen capture and export, I hope they've improved the quality of captures too. 1.1 GBs though, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow!

I doubt they'll list every little bug they've fixed. Thankfully the bug I ran into is now gone. Though not in the way I would have like to see it. Activating something while destroying will only destroy it. But at least it's consistent with any copies from the original. And I can still get the result I want with an extra timer.

I think problem with the user levels is that community has very low standards for quality. Playing well doesn't seem to be as important as looking good. I've seen plenty of levels that look great, but are downright broken. If you really want to make a level that play's well, you have someone else play test, and have them be critical about it. There is no way you can account for everything somebody else might do in a level you create.

Or sometimes an interesting idea is enough. Like all those Portal levels, none of them actually play well. The tools just don't lend themselves well to that sort of thing.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Or sometimes an interesting idea is enough. Like all those Portal levels, none of them actually play well. The tools just don't lend themselves well to that sort of thing.

Yes, these appeal on an intellectual level, like the above vid. Cooll but pointless. It's wrong for people to think that's all LBP2 can do. Then again, perhaps it's right to think that's all we'll get?

 

[Cyan]

Wow, I really liked the side scrolling shooter -the moment the ship dropped the bombs? was my favourite-. It was a very pacific way of getting rid of the baddies. The music is quite uplifting. The level seems easy, and even though I am a horribly horrible shot and would need an infinite more amount of practice, I think I would do well.

The kind of games I used to excel at are sports games and driving games. I managed to complete Super Probotector IV on the SNES, on the highest difficulty level when I was a kid though.

I like LBP2 and it is on my to-have list to own one someday but until I can't afford another console it will have to wait and maybe LBP3 will be out already...

 

[patsu]

Yes, these appeal on an intellectual level, like the above vid. Cooll but pointless. It's wrong for people to think that's all LBP2 can do. Then again, perhaps it's right to think that's all we'll get?

If they can sustain the interests, LBP2 should have more interesting output because of improved tools and hopefully easier to find user levels.

LBP is more than user levels. As Evans pointed out, most of their customers play the built-in levels first. They are inspired to make their own levels as a second step.

 

[Cornsnake]

Yes, these appeal on an intellectual level, like the above vid. Cooll but pointless. It's wrong for people to think that's all LBP2 can do. Then again, perhaps it's right to think that's all we'll get?

I'm going try and steer clear of that sort of thing for my own creations. I spend of enough time trying to work around some of the limitations of the tools. Every time I've succeeded the solution comes with it's own limitations, which I can then try and work around. That, for me, just takes too long. Certainly compared to what can do if I try to make something that is a more natural fit for tools.

I've made a very rough version of an idea I had for a more traditional LBP level. I got a lot more done in a shorter amout of time, and if need to make adjustments to it based on feedback, I can far more easily change large parts of the level. I'm a lot happier creating thing this way.

Looking at the story levels, it isn't complexity that makes them great. It's relatively simple ideas that are well executed.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah. The more complex you go, the more prone you are to bugs. I tried the latest MM picked level, "The Lost," a Heavy rain inspired adventure. It has a restart point system where you can enter a code to carry on from a different part of the level. All very clever, but bugged so I couldn't play it. Twice I was thrown into this menu with no way out, and you can't build proper interfaces or manuals - the system doesn't really accomodate clever stuff except on an intellectual level IMO.

It's very hard to debug unconventional approaches. I wanted an 8-way digital interface, like a D-Pad input. Trying to connect the D-pad buttons didn't get any response from a joystick rotator, so I built some 8 way selector circuitry for the analogue stick. It felt very good and useable, but a quick flick of the stick would send the object spinning. I added some timers to ensure when you move in a direction, the rotation is given enough time to complere, which made it more stable but still was prone to freak spinning errors. The device, the joystick rotator, was desgined for analogue direction like Geometry Wars and its myriad clones and offshoots, and trying to engineer it into another control scheme throws up all sorts of hassles. This is another reminder to stay within the natural limits of the game rather than try to be clever, unless you really want a time-consuming challenge!

 

[Arwin]

Nothing wrong with testing the limits though, particularly during the beta.

 

[patsu]

LBP2 status update:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/12/02/littlebigplanet-2-update-our-december-checklist/

* Final Box Art and Collectors Edition Packaging – Done

* ESRB Rating – Done

* Online Servers – Almost Done
Final phase testing this month. New invites go out next week. BTW, we’ve updated the online beta to test the new ‘voice recording’ features, so check out this handy tutorial from Moleynator @ Sackinima…

* FREE LBP2 PSN Demo – Prepping for PlayStation Store on 12/22

...

EDIT:
Missed this Prehistoric Move update:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/18/sackboys-prehistoric-moves/

PlayStation Plus members will get to see Sackboy's Prehistoric Moves as early as December 7, for free -- as will an unspecified number of "LBP supporters." The game will be released to the general PSN population one week later for $6. It'll also be included as a bonus on the LittleBigPlanet 2 disc, which will be available on January 18.

 

[Arwin]

Sounds good ... you'd almost think they could pull it off to release before Christmas after all, if it wasn't for the online.

And a very nice present, that Prehistoric Moves thingy. Will definitely try to make my wife play it with me.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I presume this'll be the Beta? But then they'd need to communicate creations will get wiped. Or they'll have a limited feature build, but limiting the creation aspect will be hard. Maybe just a timed demo, with full featured creation, that expires when LBP2 releases?

 

[Cornsnake]

The reason they said all the beta levels would be deleted is because they weren't sure they would have time to transfer everything over from the beta. The delay may have given them that time. Or alternatively if they have everything up and running right now, or at least before the demo, why not wipe everything now and start the demo on the servers for the full game. Keeping what's made in the demo. It's one thing to tell beta testers their levels will be deleted. They perhaps won't like it but at least understand it. And quite another to tell average joe their levels will be deleted. They'll probably miss the announcement and'll be in for an unpleasant surprise. Since Mm transferred the levels over when they did the LBP1 beta, it may have set up the expectation that they'll do it again.

There are now over 10.000 user levels published in the beta. It would be a shame if all that goes to waste.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, they'd want to keep the demo content, most notably if a user starts creating something and then the demo time's out, they'll want to buy the game to finish it off!

 

[upnorthsox]

Yes, they'd want to keep the demo content, most notably if a user starts creating something and then the demo time's out, they'll want to buy the game to finish it off!

Good point.

 

[patsu]

There are now over 10.000 user levels published in the beta. It would be a shame if all that goes to waste.

Yes, I think so too. I'd rather they copy the beta levels to a staging area for the testers to convert for the production release.

 

[wco81]

Hmm, demo this month?

Did they ever have a demo for LBP?

 

[patsu]

Not that I can remember. It's LBP beta, followed by epic beta user levels, and launch.