PS3 firmware 2.80 avaiiable

[patsu]

Why eurogamer shots comparison not works again? Time ago not give problems but after an update (I don't remember how exatcly) nothing to do ouff

I just tried watching the Soul Caliber IV comparison video on Eurogamer. It works fine here.

It's a widely known gripe that hulu is choppy on the PS3. The choppiness isn't due to buffering it's due to something else like the browser not getting enough resources or not being well optimized.

Edit: Yup just confirmed on another forum it's still choppy.

It played well in the short clip I tried.

Now I see some choppiness in a few places during the first few minutes. After that, it smoothes out (I'm playing 2 streams in parallel: one on PS3 and one on the laptop). I also saw a serious artifact where the entire screen becomes blocky twice. May be a netcode issue.

H.263 decoding should be very light weight, especially if bandwidth is not an issue.

 

[DrJay24]

Edit: Yup just confirmed on another forum it's still choppy.

An unkown person on an unkown forum now passes as verification, got to love the Internet.

 

[vazel]

An unkown person on an unkown forum now passes as verification, got to love the Internet.

Considering it was a widely known problem before and another person besides myself confirm it's still choppy that's all I needed. In some videos it looks like a slight framerate problem(some with lenient thresholds may not notice this) but in others it gets more choppy especially the 480p stream. Who doesn't want 480p at hulu. A smooth hulu would go a long way towards making the PS3 a better HT device.

 

[patsu]

The Flash video plays in a separate SPU. The browser should not affect it. It's probably the network stack (and its interaction with the decoder) that caused the artifacts and choppiness. The choppiness is not that bad over here though. I barely noticed it after some time. The occasional blocking artifact is more disruptive.

 

[vazel]

A PS3 firmware developer even admits that Flash video running on an independent SPU doesn't mean it gets rid of all dropped frames.

Playback of H.264 content from within Flash is handled through an independent process on an SPU. Processing different aspects of the web browser independently has the characteristic of making it easier to improve frame rates. While I’d stop short of saying we will eliminate all dropped frames in the future, this can be considered a strength unique to the PS3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13352207&postcount=1703

 

[patsu]

A PS3 firmware developer even admits that Flash video running on an independent SPU doesn't mean it gets rid of all dropped frames.http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13352207&postcount=1703

Yes, you see in the interview it's considered to be a strength by the developer. Dropped frame may be a function of more than just the decoding. The netcode is one other aspect. Also dropped frames may not be noticeable by most people if it's minor.

 

[vazel]

Nah that shouldn't be a problem. I think it's more to do with something else. Probably memory issues which as noted in that interview is a big problem or not having enough developer resources to better optimize the browser/flash.

Also dropped frames may not be noticeable by most people if it's minor.

It's sure noticeable to people that are used to caring about PQ. If you need it to be more noticeable flick on 480p mode which is how you should always watch hulu.

 

[patsu]

Nah that shouldn't be a problem. I think it's more to do with something else. Probably memory issues which as noted in that interview is a big problem or not having enough developer resources to better optimize the browser/flash.It's sure noticeable to people that are used to caring about PQ. If you need it to be more noticeable flick on 480p mode which is how you should always watch hulu.

We are using the web browser in standalone mode. The in-game XMB limit doesn't apply here.

I watch YouTube videos all the time. I am watching Hulu "Inside Special Forces" now (in 480p I think). If I am so concerned about quality, I'd be paying for PSN video or Blu-ray movies.

EDIT: One way to mitigate the choppiness is to stop the video at the beginning. Let it buffer enough data first. I'm doing that for the Special Forces show now. So far so good.

I remember the PS3 upscales digital videos too. Not sure if it applies to net videos.

 

[vazel]

We are using the web browser in standalone mode. The in-game XMB limit doesn't apply here.

Um, memory problems are still very much an issue with the browser. That's why the browser sometimes crashes. The browser is sharing the 256MB XDR with all the other stuff running on the main OS screen.

And you're still misunderstanding the in-game XMB stuff. The XMB game mode is not due to memory issues it's due to CPU(the XMB sits in the preallocated OS memory and also uses a dedicated OS SPU). The game can't just dynamically squeeze out memory for the XMB otherwise we'd be getting a lot of game crashes.

I watch YouTube videos all the time. If I am so concerned about quality, I'd be paying for PSN video or Blu-ray movies.

Caring about PQ quality is why I prefer hulu over YouTube. Hulu has become an appealing site for HT enthusiasts to be able to access on their HTPCs because it offers the best free streaming quality and is an easy way to watch recently aired tv shows.

EDIT: One way to mitigate the choppiness is to stop the video at the beginning. Let it buffer enough data first. I'm doing that for the Special Forces show now. So far so good.

Again, this is NOT due to a buffering issue.

I remember the PS3 upscales digital videos too. Not sure if it applies to net videos.

Wow.

 

[patsu]

Um, memory problems are still very much an issue with the browser. That's why the browser sometimes crashes. The browser is sharing the 256MB XDR with all the other stuff running on the main OS screen.

Eh... unless you have a PS3 debugger, you won't know what caused it to crash. Could be Javascript issues, memory stomping, or other issues unrelated to memory size.

And you're still misunderstanding the in-game XMB stuff. The XMB game mode is not due to memory issues it's due to CPU(the XMB sits in the preallocated OS memory and also uses a dedicated OS SPU). The game can't just dynamically squeeze out memory for the XMB otherwise we'd be getting a lot of game crashes.

Doesn't apply to standalone web browser though.

Good for you. I watch Blu-ray movies all the time. Caring about PQ quality is why I prefer hulu over YouTube. Hulu has become an appealing site for HT enthusiasts to be able to access on their HTPCs because it offers good quality for recently aired tv shows.

Well, I just go with the content. YouTube has unique content. Hulu has its own business model and collection of content. I'm watching 480p or whatever is good on Hulu. And then of course 720p and 1080p ones elsewhere.

Again, this is NOT due to a buffering issue.

It fixed my choppiness issues over here, at least for the Special Forces episode. I'll test it more later to see if the blocky mess turns up.

I remember the PS3 upscales digital videos too. Not sure if it applies to net videos.

Did a quick google. The upscaling may only apply to DVD, Blu-ray and content on the HDD. Can't remember what it does to DLNA videos.

 

[vazel]

Eh... unless you have a PS3 debugger, you won't know what caused it to crash. Could be Javascript issues, memory stomping, or other issues unrelated to memory size.

You are waaay out of the loop on this. Yes I do know it was a memory issue just like every other PS3 user out there because sometimes instead of outright crashing it gives you an 'out of memory error'. You obviously have used the browser very little and are only arguing me for the sake of arguing(why do I always get into long winded arguments with you?). The browser has to share the 256MB XDR with the main OS screen and this has been a problem. The virtual memory update did help a lot.

It fixed my choppiness issues over here, at least for the Special Forces episode.

If it's good enough for your threshold then fine. Have you tried switching over to 480p on hulu?

Did a quick google. The upscaling may only applies to DVD, Blu-ray and content on the HDD.

Wow are you serious?

 

[patsu]

You are waaay out of the loop on this. Yes I do know it was a memory issue just like every other PS3 user out there because sometimes instead of outright crashing it gives you an 'out of memory error'. You obviously have used the browser very little and are only arguing me for the sake of arguing(why do I always get into long winded arguments with you?). The virtual memory update did help a lot.

Argue for what sake ? You yourself said that VM update helped the memory size issue a lot. So memory size is not a problem. I have not seen an "Out of memory" error in a long time now. My family play YouTube videos for karaoke for hours and it never show up anymore. In the first place, running out of memory and crashing because of memory issues are 2 different things.

Of course the performance concerns that an in-game XMB has that a game has to have a hook for is not a concern here. But memory issues sure are. The browser has to share the 256MB XDR with the main OS screen and this has been a problem.
If it's good enough for your threshold then fine. Have you tried switching over to 480p on hulu?

Memory issues can be caused by memory bug, security problem, concurrent issues; not necessary memory size.

Wow are you serious?

Google for the details yourself

 

[vazel]

Argue for what sake ? You yourself said that VM update helped the memory size issue a lot. So memory size is not a problem. I have not seen an "Out of memory" error in a long time now. My family play YouTube videos for karaoke for hours and it never show up anymore.

It helped but it didn't eliminate the problem as admitted by a ps3 firmware developer. Virtual Memory is very slow.

Memory issues can be caused by memory bug, security problem, concurrent issues; not necessary memory size.

You know damn well I'm talking about memory usage. You're just trolling me now.

Google for the details yourself

Yup.

 

[patsu]

It helped but it didn't eliminate the problem as admitted by a ps3 firmware developer. Virtual Memory is very slow.

Sure, but it works.

You know damn well I'm talking about memory usage. You're just trolling me now.

No I don't know what you're talking about. If PS3 can decode 1 to 2 full stream of 50Mbps 1080p in full 5.1 LPCM audio with no loss in quality, plus a BD-Live Java program (and the Java VM) running concurrently, it certainly have enough memory to deal with a gimped Internet video stream on a simple webpage layout.

 

[vazel]

Sure, but it works.

Memory problems have been the primary problem of the browser so we can assume lingering problems are still because of it. And maybe the browser/flash need better optimizing for Cell for better hulu playback.

No I don't know what you're talking about. If PS3 can decode 1 to 2 full stream of 50Mbps 1080p in full 5.1 LPCM audio, plus a BD-Live Java program (with the Java VM), it certainly have enough memory to deal with a gimped Internet video stream on a simple webpage layout.

The PS3 goes into a dedicated mode to play Blu-rays which it is optimized for.

And it can't decode 2 streams of 50Mbps. Blu-ray spec is 40Mbps for video and 8Mbps for audio.

 

[vazel]

Your and my ego are a dangerous combination. Yet another few hours wasted.

 

[patsu]

Memory problems have been the primary problem of the browser so we can assume lingering problems are still because of it. Or maybe the browser/flash need better optimizing for Cell.

The browser didn't cause any "Out of memory" issue for a long time, and a larger buffer solved the choppiness issue for me.

The PS3 goes into a dedicated mode to play Blu-rays which it is optimized for.

And it can't decode 2 streams of 50Mbps. Blu-ray spec is 40Mbps for video and 8Mbps for audio.

The web browser runs alone though. And yes not 50Mbps but 40Mbps still a lot higher than 1 480p streaming video. The Blu-ray platform also has complex DRM overhead to deal with.

Your and my ego are a dangerous combination.

??? You keep bringing up ego issue but it's only a matter of dispelling undue concerns. Not sure what ego has to do with it.

 

[vazel]

and a larger buffer solved the choppiness issue for me.

Again, have you tried 480p mode? Put up House on hulu and hover your pointer over the video and you'll see an option to switch to 480p.

The web browser runs alone though. And yes not 50Mbps but 40Mbps still a lot higher than 1 480p streaming video.

No, the web browser does not run alone. It has to share 512MB XDR with the main OS screen. This is why the virtual memory update was done but even the firmware developer admits this is not a cure all. Have you tried loading up a web page with a lot of high resolution pictures on a PC with only 256MB RAM? Even with the virtual memory of a PC the browser will sometimes lock up.

??? You keep bringing up ego issue but it's only a matter of dispelling undue concerns. Not sure what ego has to do with it.

Listen to yourself! You've been arguing for HOURS because you feel you have to dispell undue concerns? I think the only reason I'm continuing is to see how long you'll go.

 

[patsu]

Again, have you tried 480p mode? Put up House on hulu and hover your pointer over the video and you'll see an option to switch to 480p.

No, the web browser does not run alone. It has to share 256MB XDR with the main OS screen. This is why the virtual memory update was done but even the firmware developer admits this is not a cure all. Have you tried loading up a web page with a lot of high resolution pictures on a PC with only 512MB RAM? Even with the virtual memory of a PC the browser will sometimes lock up.

PC in 512Mb ? How much memory does Vista take ? I used to run XP in a 512Mb VM, and I run Vista in a < 800Mb VM every day (like right now). And sometimes I have Visual Studio opened -- compiling stuff for hours, together with an occasional browser. It works fine (The videos will stutter depends on load). I can even go to Apple trailer site and watch movie trailers (in both the 512Mb XP and 800Mb Vista separately).

Listen to yourself! You've been arguing for HOURS because you feel you have to dispell undue concerns? I think the only reason I'm continuing is to see how long you'll go.

...

 

[vazel]

PC in 512Mb ? How much memory does Vista take ? I used to run XP in a 512Mb VM, and I run Vista in a < 800Mb VM every day (like right now). And sometimes I have Visual Studio opened, together with an occasional browser. It works fine. I can even go to Apple trailer site and watch movie trailers (in both the 512Mb XP and 800Mb Vista).



...

I was talking about that specific situation in a browser since we're talking about browsers. Like in a forum thread where people post a lot of high resolution photos usually of women and some people post about how it made their browsers lock up or have severe performance problems.