PS3 and Havok (Famitsu Article)

BlueTsunami

I laugh at you! HA HA HA!
Veteran
Was informed of this by a thread on GAF.

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2006/08/30/103,1156938240,59279,0,0.html


Heres a translation of the Webpage using www.Babelfish.altavista.com...prepare to turn your brain horizontal just to read it!
- Overturns common sense of the former game the expression which possibly!

Because CEDEC is performance meeting for the game developer, performance of special contents it is many. Unless there is a knowledge of game development, it is difficult to understand the contents completely, but, there are very interesting ones even during such special performance. Here, one of such performance, the presentation regarding the physical engine Havok of the Havok corporation Spectrum4.0 will be introduced. First, the wonderful image we would like to become in viewing.

h-103_59279_phy0003.jpg.jpg

- The movement of the smoke which comes out of the ventilation mouth is expressed with physical operation. The smoke is divided into the very small object, by the fact that the all movement is simulated, natural expression is actualized.

h-103_59279_rhy0001.jpg.jpg

- The ball hits to the wall of the brick, the circumstances where the wall deteriorates. The ball is simulated, of course one one movement of the brick which forms the wall to image is converted in real time.

h-103_59279_phy0002.jpg.jpg

- Scene of the chess of enormous number falling, it spills and falls. Because you say that also the movement of this object being calculated and being processed in real time it is the surprise.


Physical operation, simulating the movement of the object inside the 3D space of the game, to image convert in real time. From the time before it was applied to the game, but you use in earnest, the specifications of hard were not enough. With the game for PC the software where it can use physical operation in earnest starts sporadically, attracts attention in addition as the feature of place t Shaun 3.

Havok at the company which is established to Ireland 9 years ago, is called the veteran business as the enterprise which manages physical operation. Physical operation that much is new technology. The same company has offered so far, the game machine for various homes and the middleware for the physical operation for PC (the software in order to make the software), it is applied to the software of 150 titles or more. According to the regional general manager and Shaun ・ ボナム of the Havok corporation which does, for the next generation game machine, with place t Shaun 3 25 titles, with Wii 3 titles, 30 titles or more using the tool of the same company with Xbox, 360 it is performance even with the software that it is developed. Portion of the title was released, but among those ' the sonic ' series and ' Halo3 ' and ' the lost planet ' and so on there was a name.

As for Havok Spectrum4.0 which is introduced, the Havok corporation being joint with Nvidia, GPU which was developed (the graphic ・ processor. It is constituted Havok by FX and the like which does the transaction of operation regarding graphics inside PC and) with be able to process with thing becomes る topic, several tools. You exclude the details of constitution, but as for Havok Physics which does physical simulation, the fact that it is superior in parallel physical processing is feature.

With physical operation, it means to simulate the movement of the object many, but this with calculating in order one each it becomes slow. Then, the multiple core processor (plural there is a core) with CPU, with the plural cores allotting the operation of the object where the movement does not interfere, you say that it will process.

h-103_59279_phy0007.jpg.jpg

- Conceptual drawing of parallel processing. The plural auxiliary cores (SPU) by the fact that processing is made to allot, it calculates physically at high speed.

h-103_59279_phy0011.jpg.jpg

- As for this place t Shaun those where shows the operation time of physical operation of 3 and PC. The operation time of place t Shaun 3 the core 3 seems that means the same as PC which is.


h-103_59279_phy0008.jpg.jpg

- The demonstration where this "is thrown and plays and says the ぶ っ" of ラクドール with. The circumstances where 200 body thing soldiers blow off are simulated with physical operation. When it becomes finally to 800 bodies possible, is.

Well, what it is possible with Havok Spectrum4.0 is not just physical operation. There is a tool which is called to the software which forms Havok Spectrum4.0 Havok Behavior. As for this, the software which controls the conduct of the game character. When this is used, the expression where cannot release with just physical operation becomes possible. For example, the character being done in the enemy, when it is pushed down, when is just physical operation, the puppet collapses, you say that we would like to see it becomes the unnatural movement. Because this does not add, the power which such as bounce of the joint occurs from the body of the character, by the fact that Havok Behavior is used, as for from the movement of the character

It gets near to natural ones.

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2006/08/30/h-103_59279_phy0012.jpg.jpg
- A state where it is pulled from clockwise facing toward the character is displayed. The power which repels to the power which is pulled being added, it is the expectation where it is found that it is natural pause.

It calls expression of the next generation just suitable image at this performance which is released without either reluctance. As the capability of Havok Spectrum4.0 was closed knowledge and others, using that, they were the contents which raise the expectation to the software which is produced.
 
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Did'nt read it all yet but the pictures at first glance seem impressive. Of corse they do look like tech demos though. Is the last shot from heavenly sword? The same exploding soldier demo from GDC?

Anybody know what happened to that Redwood falls game?
That tech demo looked impressive also, atleast to me.

h-103_48419_br0003.jpg.jpg

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Is the last shot from heavenly sword? The same exploding soldier demo from GDC?

It looks to be. I don't know the full story on that Tech Demo but I think it was a joint venture with Havok or something to show Rigid Body Physics en mass or something? Visually it looks the same though.

I can't really make to much sense of the article myself, even when translated. The tone sound positive though.
 
It would be interesting to see how performance scales for a given workload with the number of SPUs. I've a hunch that the 4th SPU isn't contributing as much as the first 1, 2, 3 SPUs. Then again, relative to single PPU performance, it does scale better than linearly in the instance shown above.

Also would be interesting to see how much work is unique to the PPU, and how it scales with more objects.

(And also, I guess it would be nice to see stuff on different kinds of simulation e.g. their cloth or fluids, but beggers can't be choosers! :p)
 
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It seems like a lot of of resources are thrown at these physics calculations. What is the meaning of 4 SPu threads? Is that the same as saying 4 SPE's used?
If the PPU is also using two threads is that not its limit? Or can it use more threads.

Sorry the terminology has thrown me a bit in these slides.
 
What is the meaning of 4 SPu threads? Is that the same as saying 4 SPE's used?

At that moment in time, yes. They're showing the numbers for 4 with that workload because Havok on PS3 scales up to 4 SPUs. Depending on how many objects your simulating etc. you could use fewer, or get acceptable performance with fewer.

If the PPU is also using two threads is that not its limit? Or can it use more threads.

You can spawn more than 2 threads, but 2 have their contexts ready 'in hardware' at any one point in time.
 
I'm not sure if these videos are from GDC or from the havok event in the beginning of the thread, but these videos have some of the demos featured in the pictures above. I thought it was worth posting, take a while to download but definately worth the watch.

http://cgi1.watch.impress.co.jp/cgi...impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060326/gdc_ham1.zip
http://cgi1.watch.impress.co.jp/cgi...impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060326/gdc_ham2.zip
http://cgi1.watch.impress.co.jp/cgi...impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060326/gdc_ham4.zip
http://cgi1.watch.impress.co.jp/cgi...impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060326/gdc_ham3.zip
http://cgi1.watch.impress.co.jp/cgi...impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060326/gdc_ham5.zip

*thx to Mr_Nothin over at e-empire for the links.
 
Aww man, looks like phisics is going to rock on ps3. If so it might be the biggest selling point over the 360 and wii. Gotta say even though I don't care about HD video(and am guessing most people are with me on that) stuff like those massibe armies in RTS could justify the premium price they are asking for launch.
 
Tahir said:
Is that the same as saying 4 SPE's used?
In that context, probably.
Though the example they give is not using even one whole SPE (utilization is 20% of each core, assuming 60fps, 10% if 30fps).
 
attracts attention in addition as the feature of place t Shaun 3.

:???: .... :oops: .....:LOL: What the....


Love physics, i really hope in future it will help make things more realistic and not in a gimmicky way.
 
:???: .... :oops: .....:LOL: What the....

:LOL:

I remember an article a while back that was translated by babel fish and it translated Playstation the same way. People speculated (and some were adamant) that it wasn't a PS3 article because PS3 wasn't listed anywhere. It was a miraculous breakthrough when someone noted that "place T Shaun 3" may mean Playstation 3.

I love language barriers
 
:LOL:

I remember an article a while back that was translated by babel fish and it translated Playstation the same way. People speculated (and some were adamant) that it wasn't a PS3 article because PS3 wasn't listed anywhere. It was a miraculous breakthrough when someone noted that "place T Shaun 3" may mean Playstation 3.

I love language barriers

Heh it did take me a while to connect the dots... The smileys convey my expression perfectly in this case... First i went "...feature of the WHAT?... aren't they talking about the Playst... NO... it can't be!!... HAHAHAHAHAHAH"
 
O.K. guys special Beyond3D favour coming up. I took a break from translating duty and did a little on the side work. Since it took me longer than expected, this is a raw version, i.e. sometimes it is a little bit bumpy. But I didn’t want to rework my translation. Without much further ado

Comments:
( ) denotes alternate versions which sound a little bit more English or that those versions have been used before the brackets, i.e. the literal thing is either in front of the brackets or in it ;)
[] denotes things not literally present in the original text but implied from the context, as Japanese is very context based.
{} are pure comments. All made by me and thus my copyright only :yes:

To confuse things a little bit Famitsu’s article also uses round brackets () to explain technical terms, but I’m sure you can figure out whose wrote it. :LOL:

Another thing, word meaning literally “physics operation / ing†is used quite freely – i.e. it doesn’t always fit - throughout the text. Based on context I used calculating, processing or sometimes operation.

DISCLAIMER:
Human beings aren’t flawless. So this translating might contain typos, spelling errors and sometimes even funky grammar, especially this being a raw version. Otherwise, it should be a faithful and correct translation, but you never know.


Cedec 2006: Next-generation presentation that shows Havok’s physics calculations.

Presentation practically (possibly) upsets the common laws of games [released] so far.

Because CEDEC is a public conference intended for game developers, there're many technical presentation / lectures. If you have no knowledge of game development, understanding the details (contents) completely us difficult, but in such technical presentations (there are) very interesting things are mentioned. In this case we want to introduce you to a presentation - one of such lectures - that was concerned with HavokSpectum4.0, a physics engine of Havok Inc. First of all, we'd like to inspect these wonderful pictures.

h-103_59279_phy0003.jpg.jpg

Picture1:
The movement of the smoke coming out of the ventilation is shown by physics calculation. With the simulation of smoke, consisting of small particles, and all of their movement [they] have implemented a natural representation [is implemented].

h-103_59279_rhy0001.jpg.jpg

Picture2:
About the ball hitting the brick wall and the brick wall collapsing. The ball, of course, and the separate movement of [all] bricks that make up the wall is simulated and the image is altered in real-time.

h-103_59279_phy0002.jpg.jpg

Picture3:
A huge number of chess pieces is falling down and scattering. Surprisingly, the movement of those bodies is said to be calculated and processed in realtime.
 
By physics calculations the movement of the game's bodies in three-dimensional space is simulated and changed in real-time. Although it was used before in games, the hardware specifications weren't sufficient for full-blown application. In PC games first software starts to appear here and there that uses full-blown physics calculations and also [it] gathers attention as a feature in Playstation3.

Havok is a firm founded 9 years ago in Ireland and is said to be a veteran in the business of producing physics processing. Physics processing is that much of new technology. The same company is offering middleware (software used to creating software) for physics calculations intended for PC and various home consoles and it is used until now in over 150 titles. According to Havok's regional general manager Sean Bonham who held the presentation, though intended for next-generation home consoles, over 25 titles on Playstation 3, more than 3 titles for Wii and over 30 titles for Xbox360 are developed using the tools of his company. Those titles have been partially presented to the public; Among them the "Sonic" series, "Halo3" and "Lost Planet" were mentioned by name.

After being introduced HavokSpecturm4.0 was composed of a few tools, among other things HavokFX which Havok developed in cooperation with Nvidia and which became topic in the event of processing on a GPU ( Graphics Processor - performs all processes and operations inside PC concerned with graphics ).
{translation comment: alternate verision: among other things HavokFX which became topic in the event of processing on a GPU ( Graphics Processor - preforms all processes and operations inside PC concerned with graphics ) that Havok developed in cooperation with Nvidia.
However, since HavokFX is supposed to run also on ATI cards I've opted for the first version. BTW, that sentence was a biatch to translate}. Omitting the details of the organisation, HavokPhysics, which performs the physics simulation, has a feature which excels at parallel physics treatment (processing).

In physics processing, a great number of bodies has to has to be simulated, but calculating that one after other in sequential order, would make it slow. Therefore, on multicoreprocessors (having multiple cores) CPUs, it will deal [with the problem] by distributing the calculations of bodies whose movement do not interfere (collide) among the multiple cores.

h-103_59279_phy0007.jpg.jpg

Picture4:
Parallel processing schematics. In case dealing [with the problem] (solving, work-load) is shared (literally is forced to / made to be shared) on multiple auxiliary cores (SPU) physics operations are performed by high speed.

h-103_59279_phy0011.jpg.jpg

Picture5:
This slide denotes the the processing speed of physics calculations on the PC and the PS3. Apparently/ It looks as if Playstation3's processing speed is the same level as that of an PC with 3 Cores. {Comment: I am sorry, but that's what it says; don't blame me, blame Famitsu. Moreover, this one is quite tricky to translate because the Japanese construction offers a wide range of meaning: It can be a positive speculative comparision but also an indirect declarative statement. So pick your poison. :LOL:}

h-103_59279_phy0008.jpg.jpg
h-103_59279_phy0009.jpg.jpg

Picture6:
This is a ragdoll demo called "Beating and Playing" {Comment: I don't know what the real title might be}. The blowing-off (blasting-off) of 200 soldiers’ bodies is simulated by physics operations. In the end up to 800 hundred bodies will be possible
 
Moreover, it is not only physics calculation that can be done by HavokSpectrum4.0. There's a tool called HavokBehaviour in the software that comprises HavokSpectrum 4.0. This is software that controls the action (behaviour) of a game character. If this is used, presentations (animations) become possible that are not only physics. For example, in case a game character is hurt and knocked down by his enemy, if only physics calculations are used, it said that the artificial movement looks like the collapse of a marionette. This is the elasticity of the joints etc. Thus, the force that comes from the body of the character is not taken into account .By using HavokBehaviour the character's movements get closer to the natural thing.

h-103_59279_phy0012.jpg.jpg

Picture7:
[It] shows the current status of being pulled from the right side {Comment: I know this one sounds really funky. It means the character is pulled toward the right side of the screen by an invisible force or rope.} Taking into account the repelling force which works against the pull, we should understand the more natural pose (in the second model).

Surely in this lecture the appropriate image of next-generation presentation (graphics) has been freely demonstrated to the public. Together with the understanding of HavokSpectrum's merits the contents boosted the hope for anticipated (future) software which is created by using it.

P.S.: the goddamn picture limit is freaking me out -> several posts.
 
Thnaks for the translation.

This is very impressive IMO, I hope it does not take to much time till we see gameplay using this.

To bad they didnt show anything to wii, but if it will top near Elebits physics then that is normal, to bad I would like wii could do at least 1/15 of this.
 
First of all, thanks guys...

This is very impressive IMO, I hope it does not take to much time till we see gameplay using this.


Personally, I found the use of physics for animation purposes to be the more impressive part of the presentation. If it's really as good as it sounds, it probably could partially replace motion-capturing and allow for more continuity in the transistion between animation sequences etc.
 
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