Progressive scan

[Ooh-videogames]

I was wondering how much memory is used for pro-scan. There's a obvious visual quality difference when running a game in pro-scan then on a regular television. When a developer decides to include pro-scan in a game does it have an affect on how the game will look on a regular television. Another I would like to mention is the GC video ports on the back are seperate, you have analog on the left and digital on the right, but the Xbox and PS2 have only one video port and they can get the same feature. Why would Nintendo make these seperate ports?

 

[pcostabel]

Progressive scan uses more memory on the PS2 only if your game uses a half height frame buffer. Most games use a full height frame buffer since
you need to run at 60fps to use the half height trick, therefore progessive scan support is only a matter of switching a flag.
As a owner of an HDTV set, I must say that progressive scan support is somewhat overrated. Yes, progressive scan signals look much better than interlaced ones, but most tv sets capable of displaying a progressive signal also have the ability to line double an interlace signal. On my set, progressive games look pratically the same as interlaced line doubled ones, both on my PS2 and GC.
As for Nintendo having two ports, you should ask them.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

since nintendo uses the same video cable on the game cube as they did on SNES and N64, it is most likely due to lack of available pins and the desire to make a profit off of a seperate cable....

 

[kaching]

As a owner of an HDTV set, I must say that progressive scan support is somewhat overrated. Yes, progressive scan signals look much better than interlaced ones, but most tv sets capable of displaying a progressive signal also have the ability to line double an interlace signal. On my set, progressive games look pratically the same as interlaced line doubled ones, both on my PS2 and GC.

I would agree. IMO, if a choice must be made, I prefer widescreen support over p-scan.

 

[Ooh-videogames]

Progressive scan uses more memory on the PS2 only if your game uses a half height frame buffer. Most games use a full height frame buffer since
you need to run at 60fps to use the half height trick, therefore progessive scan support is only a matter of switching a flag.
As a owner of an HDTV set, I must say that progressive scan support is somewhat overrated. Yes, progressive scan signals look much better than interlaced ones, but most tv sets capable of displaying a progressive signal also have the ability to line double an interlace signal. On my set, progressive games look pratically the same as interlaced line doubled ones, both on my PS2 and GC.
As for Nintendo having two ports, you should ask them.

Well I don't have HDTV but my GC is connected to monitor trough a modified component cable and differences are very noticable. RS, Metal Arms, Fzero GX and NFS:U all alot better in progressive scan then on my television, Viewtiful Joe even looks better.

 

[Ozymandis]

On my set, progressive games look pratically the same as interlaced line doubled ones, both on my PS2 and GC.

Your set must have a nice de-interlacer. On both of my digital TVs, progressive scan is a big jump in quality (Sony and Toshiba). More so in high-motion games.

 

[archie4oz]

Your set must have a nice de-interlacer. On both of my digital TVs, progressive scan is a big jump in quality (Sony and Toshiba). More so in high-motion games.

What Sony set do you have? Mine's LCD so it gets converted to progressive anyways...

 

[pcostabel]

On my set, progressive games look pratically the same as interlaced line doubled ones, both on my PS2 and GC.

Your set must have a nice de-interlacer. On both of my digital TVs, progressive scan is a big jump in quality (Sony and Toshiba). More so in high-motion games.

It's a Panasonic 56". Yes, it has a good line doubler. I'm curious: what kind of difference do you see?

 

[Tagrineth]

since nintendo uses the same video cable on the game cube as they did on SNES and N64, it is most likely due to lack of available pins and the desire to make a profit off of a seperate cable....

Nope. It's an official, standard thing. Component video cables are required for HDTV (read: Anything other than 480i) signals. Xbox and PS2 need Component cables for 480p (and 720p and 1080i for XB) too.

 

[Nick Laslett]

I have a Panasonc 42PWD4B Plasma panel. It is 3 years old.

PS2 games look a lot better in prog scan on this display.

They look much more PC like, very sharp, with much clearer textures

I also use the Blaze VGA adaptor to force some games into prog scan mode.

I find Prog Scan has the most effect on racing titles, you seem to get a much clear view ahead and this makes it easier to navigate. This is especially true with games like Burnout 2 and The Getaway.

JAK2 is the only prog scan title I have found disappointing from a asthetics perspective. It looks very similar in interlaced mode.

 

[London Geezer]

I have a Panasonc 42PWD4B Plasma panel. It is 3 years old.

PS2 games look a lot better in prog scan on this display.

They look much more PC like, very sharp, with much clearer textures

I also use the Blaze VGA adaptor to force some games into prog scan mode.

I find Prog Scan has the most effect on racing titles, you seem to get a much clear view ahead and this makes it easier to navigate. This is especially true with games like Burnout 2 and The Getaway.

JAK2 is the only prog scan title I have found disappointing from a asthetics perspective. It looks very similar in interlaced mode.

Yes i would have to agree. Not only JAK2 crashed on me many times when in Pro-scan, but the tearing makes it look worse than interlace mode, which is so clear it is difficult to notice any difference anyway. You CAN see the difference, but that is if you play at 1 foot distance from the TV...
Burnout2, Guilty Gear X2, The Getaway, Tekken4 and some others look far better in Pro-scan on my TV (an LG LCD display).
I use the Blaze adapter too, since some games do not have the Pro-Scan option in the PAL versions, and also because VGA is the only way to get pro-scan out of my TV...

 

[ChryZ]

since nintendo uses the same video cable on the game cube as they did on SNES and N64, it is most likely due to lack of available pins and the desire to make a profit off of a seperate cable....

Nope. It's an official, standard thing. Component video cables are required for HDTV (read: Anything other than 480i) signals. Xbox and PS2 need Component cables for 480p (and 720p and 1080i for XB) too.

There is a catch and that's YeuEmMaiMai's point: the GC component cable inculdes a DAC IC, acual hardware:

That IC makes the GC's component cable more expensive than the e.g. the PS2's one (PS2 ~25$, GC ~50$ ... last time I've checked).

I am not sure to criticize this decision, component/progr-scan/HDTV is not used by every owner of a GC, so it's ok to move this novelty into a cable and thereby lower the price of the console. I am not sure though, if Nintendo could have included the feature with the DAC, that is build into the concole in the first place. Anyone care to comment?

Anyway the DAC build into the component cable is way better than the one build into the GC. How do I come to this bold statment? There is also <a href=http://www.rgbcube.co.uk/">a way to modify the component cable for RGB/Scart output</a>. This modified cable also works with the PAL GC, which is able to output RGB without the "digital port" and this makes it possible to compare the signal quality of both DACs ... the IC, build into the component cable, delivers a 20% better result.

 

[London Geezer]

Great find, Chryz!

Does anyone know what's inside the Blaze VGA Adapter for ps2?

 

[ChryZ]

Great find, Chryz!

Does anyone know what's inside the Blaze VGA Adapter for ps2?

I think, it's just a cable without any additional hardware ... just like Sony's VGA cable that comes with their linux kit (while using progressive scan capable software though). From what I know about that Blaze thingy, it's the software that does the trick. It's not a signal conversion in hardware, like those vga-box/line doubler things. Blaze's "software hack" and Sony's VGA-adapter/component-cable (+progressive scan capable software) are true progressive-scan, done with the PS2 hardware standalone.

 

[London Geezer]

Great find, Chryz!

Does anyone know what's inside the Blaze VGA Adapter for ps2?

I think, it's just a cable without any additional hardware ... just like Sony's VGA cable that comes with their linux kit (while using progressive scan capable software though). From what I know about that Blaze thingy, it's the software that does the trick. It's not a signal conversion in hardware, like those vga-box/line doubler things. Blaze's "software hack" and Sony's VGA-adapter/component-cable (+progressive scan capable software) are true progressive-scan, done with the PS2 hardware standalone.

yeah i know that, it's just that there IS a box, it's not a just cable like the Sony VGA cable, and i was wondering what is inside..

 

[ChryZ]

i was wondering what is inside..

Well, you could open it ... if you really want to know

Anyway, I am pretty sure it is empty.

EDIT:

Now, I am not that sure anymore:

Which monitors are supported, and what is "sync on green"?

Alternatives

If you wish to use a monitor that does not support sync on green, there are two adaptors that users have reported as working successfully with the Linux kit (as of FAQ revision #12). These are the Blaze VGA adaptor, and the Software Integrators' Sync separator. Neither Sony nor SCE are affiliated with these companies and do not offer any support or guarantee for the usage and quality of their products, however these products may be of interest to some of our users.

http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php

 

[London Geezer]

Interesting! Mine is kinda different! Still, not gonna open it anytime soon...

 

[Tagrineth]

There is a catch and that's YeuEmMaiMai's point: the GC component cable inculdes a DAC IC, acual hardware:

That IC makes the GC's component cable more expensive than the e.g. the PS2's one (PS2 ~25$, GC ~50$ ... last time I've checked).

WTF?!

$29.95, direct from Nintendo.

Fifty dollars... wtf. Hell, Nintendo AFAIR doesn't even ALLOW resale of Component GC video cables - officially they're only available through N themselves.

I am not sure to criticize this decision, component/progr-scan/HDTV is not used by every owner of a GC, so it's ok to move this novelty into a cable and thereby lower the price of the console. I am not sure though, if Nintendo could have included the feature with the DAC, that is build into the concole in the first place. Anyone care to comment?

$30 is an acceptable price difference from $25, considering the GC's Component cables do much more than PS2's (as in, there are like 50x more proscan GC titles than PS2 ones).

 

[cthellis42]

$30 is an acceptable price difference from $25, considering the GC's Component cables do much more than PS2's (as in, there are like 50x more proscan GC titles than PS2 ones).

Last time I checked any reasonable compilation, it was more like 2.5x, and in itself is about 4x less than Xbox's 300+ 480p titles. (And almost 2x less than Dreamcast's)

Don't know how up to date or accurate the compilations are, though. Hard to track.

 

[ChryZ]

Fifty dollars... wtf. Hell, Nintendo AFAIR doesn't even ALLOW resale of Component GC video cables - officially they're only available through N themselves.

Calm down, like I said "last time I've checked" and in addition to that, my location is Europe so I only know the prices of those outlaw mail-order shops, which don't care about Nintendo's none-resale policy ... oh and btw, today's price of the PS2 component cable is still much less ($7,95-$19,99) than the price of the GC's component cable.

Anyway, the GC cable is a must for 480p users ... I own two modified ones and I paid way more than $30/a-piece for them, so I know what I talking about