Imma need to see the area integration optimization equations
Show your work.
Worth 50% of your final grade.
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Predict: Next gen console tech (9th iteration and 10th iteration edition) [2014 - 2017]
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
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Show your work.
Worth 50% of your final grade.
:3
Looking at core size is misleading, IMO. The Jaguars in PS4/Xbox One are organized in two quad core complexes. Each quad core complex, functionally equivalent to a CCX in the Ryzen CPUs, is roughly 26mm2, that includes the shared L2 and system glue.
A CCX is 44mm² in 14nm tech, it might be 35mm² in 10nm and 25mm² in 7nm, either way it seems like a clear upgrade path (to me anyway).
Cheers
D
Deleted member 11852
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You could get even better cost efficiency from circular dies using wafers large enough for the die space. If you're using ICs made from exotic (read, expensive) materials, this the only way to keep costs manageable. It doesn't scale well though.
Nobody is setup to mass produce this way. Yet. 
Isn't it just simpler to create a rectangle since the transistors structure are linear by design. Plus... ordered grid design for repeated structures (memory etc.). Shortest distance between two parallel lines etc. (cue my t-shirt, which I will not be posting a selfie of).
Physically curved structures might not be so great during the patterning steps.
Physically curved structures might not be so great during the patterning steps.
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26mm2 on PS4/Xbox One?...is that the size on original 28nm consoles or slim 16nm consoles?..
28nm gen
right...4 jag cores on 16nm could be 13mm2 or something...
and 4 zen cores on 14nm is 44mm2....
that's big size difference...
The discussion was about launching on GF/TSMC "7nm".
right but my point was Zen will take up much more of die area than Jaguar on same node @ ~350mm2 die size.....so I think 8 core zen cpu in next gen consoles is out of the question..
Prophecy2k
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Well, sure it will. The Zen CPU has significantly more transistors. But that's not relevant. The area available to the CPU on the die on the 28nm launch PS4 APU is what we're interested in. How small or big Jaguar is at smaller nodes is irrelevant because Sony won't be considering Jaguars for PS5. The issue is whether the same die area on a 7nm node will accommodate a 2x CCX Zen CPU, that accomodated an 8c two-module Jaguar CPU at 28nm.
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ahhh my mistake...I was only thinking relative size of cpu/gpu on die....and not taking into account the fact that the overall chip size (~350mm2) would still be the same.
So you all expect, that the next gen SoCs will be bigger than 300 mm²?
The only reason I brought up circular was for chip layout design. Everything is equidistant from the middle. Wasn't sure if there was some optimal chip layout that would ultimately reduce travel distance.
I mean it will probably come down to the cpu choice...but these aren't the slim or mid gen consoles so > 300mm2 isn't crazy...
D
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It is because all design methodologies are predicted on 90 degree right angles. But.. who knows what could be achieved if those preconceived notions were tossed out of the window. Take the red pill!
Prophecy2k
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PS4 was 348mm²
Non-Manhattan routing is long-standing topic of research, since there are advantages in terms of wire length and the number of metal layers necessary for a diagonal connection versus right angle turns.
Routing methods that allow for increasing options for diagonals such as Y and X architectures exist.
It's not that they haven't been considered, but they seem to pose their own challenges given how long Manhattan routing has persisted despite the readily offered decrease in wire length and congestion.
The original consoles. Die size is dictated by economics, bus width likewise to an extent. The bus width, dictating bandwidth, sets an upper limit to the amount of CUs, so all in all I'd expect a 300-350mm^2 die, 50-60 of which used for cpus, 256 bit bus (unless AMD's high bandwidth cache tech really shines).
Cheers
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