Post-PS4 announcement and 8GB "surprise": Is Microsoft in time to change something?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 13524
  • Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Deleted member 13524

Guest
Title says it all.
At this point in time and given the rumoured specs for the third Xbox, what could Microsoft do to shorten the gap between the next-gen consoles?

1 - GPU clocks from 800Mhz to >1GHz?
2 - Increase the clocks on the EDRAM?
3 - Increase CPU clocks?

4 - Additional 64bit channel for DDR3? (along with an uneven amount of memory per channel like we saw in GF106 and GK106?)
 
If they don't have another design laying somewhere at Redmond offices (which they don't), there is nothing they can do. They are loosing this, badly.

And its interesting because from leaked roadmap its pretty evident that MS thought Sony are going to have very good console (technically) yet they completely dropped the ball.
 
If their plan is going subsidized with cable companies I don´t think they will care very much. That kind of market will be for them anyway.
 
If you want to launch this year, then it would not be possible - to much work would need to be done on reworking the software, which seems very unlikely.

So they have two options: postpone the release, or make the best of the situation and hope to compete on price of the hardware and services of course.

And I think they've been going for the latter option day one, hoping to undercut Sony again with up to $100 at launch. We'll see if they can pull it off. And of course hoping to feel confident about next-gen Kinect being included in the box and next-gen Live services still being very competitive, now integrating various OS level / Windows 8 RT features for Apps etc. If you can run all of Windows 8 RT App Store applications on your 360 and control them with Kinect as a touch interface, then that's going to be something that will cause Sony to struggle against in the mainstream department.
 
Anything that requires changes in silicon is pretty much entirely out the window, so no GDDR being added at this late stage, for example. With the time it takes to run the wafers through the fab (like what, close to 2 months?), package them, then verification before production could ramp...any delay there - like an error being found requiring respin - would potentially set MS back months and probably cause them to miss the christmas release window or at least be forced to launch with such small amount of inventory that they'd be ridiculed to no end and lose tons of revenue, mindshare etc.

Bumping clocks a bit...maybe. But with red-ring experiences in their recent past due to pushing their hardware too much is anyone actually expecting them to do this? I believe they're just going to go with what they've got, assume that the Xbox brand and exclusive titles, plus the average consumer's disinterest and outright ignorance about specs is going to carry them through.

Possibly they might instead try to compete with a lower launch price point, which would probably benefit them more, possibly a lot more, than trying to butt heads with sony on pure specs. Then there is always the chance they've grown bigheaded like Sony did in the past by the 360s overwhelming success this gen (discounting wii the lame duckling of course, since it's not a real console but rather a toy) and go with lower specs than PS4, new kinect, and similar-to-PS4 price tag. Personally I would bet on Microsoft arrogance every day of the week... :D
 
What power difference ......do you know some think the rest of the world doesn't ....?
have you seen games running on both systems side by side .....?
Do you have insider information one hundred percent facts about both machines ....?
No ....then let's just wait and see ....because if you don't know facts that's all you and I can do wait and see ....

Sony showed some stuff talked a hell of a lot .......and didn't set the world on fire with any think they showed in my opinion .....of coarse they have more to show but will it set the world on fire .........is there machine better than Microsoft's no one knows yet by the end of the year we may know or at least have a better idea but its to early to judge........not enough facts .
Let's wait and see then compear when we have side by side games on hardware to look at .
 
- the Oban rumour. If that is the Durango chip, I would not see 'reducing yields' as an acceptable option.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/yiel...-beyond-planned-september-2013-launch/0102438

- changing clock-rate may not be simple.
The AMD CPU/GPU may run 50% faster... but that doesn't necessarily include the DMEs/graphics planes... or the interfaces with the ESRAM etc.

Personally, I would not expect changes... but I don't think we know everything about Durango yet. MS may not need to change things.
 
What power difference ......do you know some think the rest of the world doesn't ....?
Leaked specs indicate durango to be weaker than PS4, by a fairly small margin for sure, but it's still there.

...And leaked specs were quite accurate with regards to PS4, which would lend credence to what we know about durango, as the same people have leaked stuff about both consoles.

...Oh, and don't be so defensive, mate. There's no need to ride to the defense of a hunk of plastic and circuits like a knight in shining armor.
 
I think that ms had some insider info long time ago, they had some time to evaluate, if they haven't it means that they can't or that don't see it so bad or that second place with a less expensive console is likable too
If they have, maybe the changes are something more that clock increase, that btw from what I understand is linked to the memory clock in a way that a 10% increase in gpu can add latencies to the memory controller
 
I think that the question is more about business side of thing than on specs at this point on one hand and reserved resources (for OS, services, etc.) on the other (more technical pov).

On the specs, I see nothing really wrong with MSFT system.
On the CPU side we have either parity or lightly better for MSFT.
On the GPU side Sony win by a significant margin.

To elaborate, MSFT CPU should benefit from lower latency provided by the DDR3 but it might not be that significant as in any case top of the line games will minimize as much as possible L2 misses. Devs dealt with the Cell which prove that for a lot of things done in a games it is possible to prefetch the data properly in a lot of cases.
There could be the double FMA units, but I don't expect a x2 jump in overall CPU perfs, though it could be a significant win.

So as I see it Durango (putting OS consideration aside) may do better on the CPU front (slightly because of DDR3 or more significantly if they have reworked the SIMD) and is set to render at a lower resolution than the PS3 and quiet possible with lesser level of AA.

I think that if some noise about Durango CPU are true it could definitely provide either a smoother gameplay (when the CPU is the bottleneck) or buy a bit more time to the GPU to finish its frame.
The cons is pretty obvious, it has to render at lower resolution with less AA.

Overall Sony has a really flexible system, most likely the easiest to code for ever.
MSFT made some choices that may not please enthusiasts but I think that a lot come down to price and business side of things. To me it is like a coin it has to side: on one side the specs there is no disputing how important that is, on the other "the rest" and that quiet a lot of thing but it is mostly business related (price, perceived value, functionality /to which extend the system is functional without subscription, etc.). It is not the place to discuss that.

Back to the tech, Durango having its weakness and possibly (as it is not confirmed) some mild advantage in some places, I think the problem and on the contrary on most people here that the issue is more CPU related than GPU. It should be trivial to scale the graphics workloads to match Durango GPU throughput. How many CPU cores MSFT really lock for OS and services and what the competition does? That should be imo the concern.
RAM should be pretty even both system having a massive amount of ram a first in console history, I think scaling down the requirement ion this regard if needed should not be tough.
What could be tougher is if MSFT gave guaranties wrt to the amount of CPU power available to the system (OS, service, may be even apps), release the system and then has to make change because of performances issues.
Imo if MSFT hearsabout what Sony does on the matter (and they use less resources) they should tone down they own requirement before it get more complicated to change it (/software makes use of it).

As for changing the hardware in emergency, it sounds like a joke. Sony didn't debunk the rumors about a possible 2014 EU launch, I don't know where MSFT stands wrt timeline, etc. but rushing something is not doable without being late, like giving SOny a free year.
They better stick to their plan, (depending on the truth in rumors) tone down a tad their OS requirement, if anything the thing they can alter is price, in this sucky economy it may help more than a few FLOPS.
 
Leaked specs indicate durango to be weaker than PS4, by a fairly small margin for sure, but it's still there.

...And leaked specs were quite accurate with regards to PS4, which would lend credence to what we know about durango, as the same people have leaked stuff about both consoles.

...Oh, and don't be so defensive, mate. There's no need to ride to the defense of a hunk of plastic and circuits like a knight in shining armor.

What defence ......come now this is the internet its full of rumour .....I could careless about specks or machines as a middle age guy who has been gaming since the dawn of it all in the 70,s seen it all before ......
The facts are this no one apart from a very free tight lipped people no any think ...I love this site that's why I joined but come on what difference in power .....facts are I will own all home machines .....I never sell my games or machines I collect this is my hobby .

Let's just wait and see not take sides which is what this blog is about ...side taking with out facts .....the real question is this who will support Nintendo here to save then becoming a soft wear only company ....I will in fact I already have ....
 
I think Microsoft already has a plan lead out & that plan is to release new updates to the console every other year or so like the Android & Apple devices.
 
I don't know if an overclock would be such a big deal.
Maybe a change for a slightly louder, larger and pricier cooling system would suffice.
 
I don't know if an overclock would be such a big deal.
Maybe a change for a slightly louder, larger and pricier cooling system would suffice.
It is nonsensical.
To make any significant difference you might need a jump of 2 lithography nodes. The pace of those jump is slightly slowing down.
It makes no sense, especially with a custom hardware.
 
Microsoft will obviously have a lower price.
But they could try 16GB DDR3 just to "win" at least one spec on paper, unless their board layout cannot be changed on time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top