Possibilites of a "dual" GPU setup for Xbox2?

[MaximilianSWE]

I´ve heard of a "interesting" rumour about an dual-GPU (or VPU, whatever you´d like) setup for Xbox2.

Would this be feasible, regarding cost an such? ATI announced that they also had an SLI-like thing for their newer PC-cards, for doubling performance. Is this something MS has taken in consideration desiging Xbox2?

I mean, the R500 isn´t exactly the "newest" card coming from ATi, the R600 is also in a planning stage if I understand it correctly but is more of a "2006 card".

So, question is... dual-VPU setup for Xbox2, possible considering costs or impossible and "not needed"?
Would it be "overkill"? I mean, a 3 core CPu (if those rumour are true) and a 2 "core" VPU... seems like a behemot of a machine...

 

[GwymWeepa]

I think its BS, I think someone simply pulled this "rumor" out of their butt...MS is out to make money this time around, putting two complex GPU's in there would be overkill financially speaking. Now, if somehow the rumor turns out to be true, well damn I'll be a happy gamer.

 

[Paul]

MS is out to make money this time around

More or less agreed, MS wants to basically mimic what Sony did this gen..

 

[pc999]

Meybe later in XB2 life, like memory expansion for N64 wich give us Perfect Dark amoung others, i agree with this possibility.

 

[Fox5]

Well, dual gpus would allow Xenon to outperform consoles coming out after it, and all that extra fillrate would be useful for hdtv resolutions...

Could they lower the speed of the individual graphics chips to where the yields are almost 100% and then just put 2-4 in the system?

Meybe later in XB2 life, like memory expansion for N64 wich give us Perfect Dark amoung others, i agree with this possibility.

And perfect dark had horrible framerate...even in low res wide screen mode. Plus conker's bad fur day looked better and ran better without even using the 4MB expansion, not even as an option.
And I remember it was rumored that there would be a graphics add on for dreamcast, but really, where would it plug in? It would require a very high speed port, and generally graphics add ons for consoles have more been replacements for the console that required ownership of the original thing than true add ons. Look at all of sega's add ons, I don't the genesis really worked with the sega cd or 32x, and the 32x easily dwarfed the genesis's power anyhow, and the proposed add on for the saturn I think would have dwarfed the saturn.(the one to let it do virtua fighter 3)

 

[MaximilianSWE]

I think its BS, I think someone simply pulled this "rumor" out of their butt...MS is out to make money this time around, putting two complex GPU's in there would be overkill financially speaking. Now, if somehow the rumor turns out to be true, well damn I'll be a happy gamer.

Who said MS wouldn´t make any kind of profit?
I mean, Xbox has gained a lot of momentum, software-sales have been rather good recently (Halo2 racking up a 5+ million sales in only 3 weeks, that would accumulate a lof of greens).

For Xbox2, MS will most definately increase their market-share and thus be able to sale more software, which means more income. Online is another area where money can come in for MS...

Nonetheless...
By having 2 VPUs would surely give "some edge" to Xbox2 and all the comments of "PS3 will smoke Xbox2 out of the water" would fade away...

(I also think that it sounds a bit costly of having that kind of configuration, but I would love to be suprised)

 

[London Geezer]

Nonetheless...
By having 2 VPUs would surely give "some edge" to Xbox2 and all the comments of "PS3 will smoke Xbox2 out of the water" would fade away...

(I also think that it sounds a bit costly of having that kind of configuration, but I would love to be suprised)

The thing is, MS could actually afford to do that and more, however they do need to be really careful with their shareholders. The more MS loses, the lower their stock value goes, and shareholders don't like that.
They could just dip in their immense cash reserve and lose billions on the Xbox2 like they did with the first one, but i just don't think it's going to happen.
And what for, just to "have an edge with PS3"?? All they need to remember is that the people who buy games really either don't know or don't care about the "real power" of a console, look at what happened in the last 2 generations, Sony destroyed the others twice in a row, and twice in a row with the least powerful system.

MS better spend their cash for software and marketing, cause that's all that matters here, like Sony showed.

 

[Megadrive1988]

MaximilianSWE:

I´ve heard of a "interesting" rumour about an dual-GPU (or VPU, whatever you´d like) setup for Xbox2.

while I would *love* to see this happen, and think it would be tremendous for the future-proofing of the Xenon platform, and allow it to last more than / be viable longer than 4 years, I know of no such rumor.

mind telling us where you heard this rumor? :?

Would this be feasible, regarding cost an such? ATI announced that they also had an SLI-like thing for their newer PC-cards, for doubling performance. Is this something MS has taken in consideration desiging Xbox2?

I mean, the R500 isn´t exactly the "newest" card coming from ATi, the R600 is also in a planning stage if I understand it correctly but is more of a "2006 card".

So, question is... dual-VPU setup for Xbox2, possible considering costs or impossible and "not needed"?
Would it be "overkill"? I mean, a 3 core CPu (if those rumour are true) and a 2 "core" VPU... seems like a behemot of a machine...

I really do understand what you are saying, and I do mostly agree.

yeah I think it is *possible* yet very unlikely.



Fox5:

Well, dual gpus would allow Xenon to outperform consoles coming out after it, and all that extra fillrate would be useful for hdtv resolutions...

Could they lower the speed of the individual graphics chips to where the yields are almost 100% and then just put 2-4 in the system?

I've been thinking basicly the same thing for more than a year now. I've often had fantasies about a killer NEO-GEO AES like console with 2-4 graphics processors. be it Xbox2 or a competitor.

I highly doubt it'll happen though. At best, we're gonna see a single beefy Xenon VPU with 24-32 or perhaps even as many as 48-64 unified pipelines that can be used for geometry or pixel processing.

the smallest figure I gave, 24 pipelines, is slightly more than the Radeon X800 / R420 has, 22 (6v+16p).

 

[Tuttle]

For Xbox2, MS will most definately increase their market-share and thus be able to sale more software, which means more income.

definately??? I don't think so...

Marketshare isn't like interest where you just keep getting more over time.

 

[Megadrive1988]

p.s. I think that if Microsoft really wanted to beef up Xenon's performance, in the face of a very powerful PS3, I think they could simply add more 'quads' of pipelines to the existing VPU architecture. R420 and NV40 have this scalability, so I'm sure Xenon VPU architechure does also. in the event that MS needed 'dual VPU' power, they could just add more pipelines, in fours. they'd avoid the mess of a second VPU die by keeping Xenon graphics tighter (all on one chip) and keep costs reasonable.

 

[MaximilianSWE]

For Xbox2, MS will most definately increase their market-share and thus be able to sale more software, which means more income.

definately??? I don't think so...

Marketshare isn't like interest where you just keep getting more over time.

I truly expect MS to increase its market share with Xbox2, no sweat.
Continue to market the brand, secure more titles (maybe they can no leap frog Sony and secure a GTA-game for Xbox2 and maybe a Half Life3 for an X amount of time) and the machine would be more attractive...

 

[Fox5]

p.s. I think that if Microsoft really wanted to beef up Xenon's performance, in the face of a very powerful PS3, I think they could simply add more 'quads' of pipelines to the existing VPU architecture. R420 and NV40 have this scalability, so I'm sure Xenon VPU architechure does also. in the event that MS needed 'dual VPU' power, they could just add more pipelines, in fours. they'd avoid the mess of a second VPU die by keeping Xenon graphics tighter (all on one chip) and keep costs reasonable.

Wouldn't that lower yields considerably?

 

[MaximilianSWE]

mind telling us where you heard this rumor? :?

Ohh.. from someone "in the bizniz", I cannot say more than that..sorry.
It was "a buzz".. so therefore I posted here if maybe anyone else have heard somehing similiar...

 

[Guden Oden]

Ohh.. from someone "in the bizniz", I cannot say more than that..sorry.

OOOH, okay! Someone "in the bizniz! Well that changes everything, I will now believe every word you say, from now on until the end of time.

It was "a buzz".. so therefore I posted here if maybe anyone else have heard somehing similiar...

I'd say someone's buzzed, alright...

Dude. If you heard this...whatever it is that you refuse to say...from SOMEONE IN THE BIZNIZ of all things, why do you even need to post about it here? It must be true then, right?

Seriously though, you sound like the typical Xbot who hadn't said a nice word about microsoft EVER until they released a games console. We've had a million of guys just like you pass through here trying to stir romantic shit up about nextbox and how ooh-aah-superduper it's going to be. A few even seriously entertained the idea of not only dual GPUs but also a 10GHz P4 CPU. Obviously that was a while ago, but you see the lengths some fans go to when it comes to believing all kinds of crazy shit about the next generation just because they're a fan of the current hardware.

It's not going to have dual GPUs. Trust me, it just isn't, and the biggest reason is it simply won't need it. It'll be totally kickass anyway, don't worry.

 

[MaximilianSWE]

Ohh.. from someone "in the bizniz", I cannot say more than that..sorry.

OOOH, okay! Someone "in the bizniz! Well that changes everything, I will now believe every word you say, from now on until the end of time.

It was "a buzz".. so therefore I posted here if maybe anyone else have heard somehing similiar...

I'd say someone's buzzed, alright...

Dude. If you heard this...whatever it is that you refuse to say...from SOMEONE IN THE BIZNIZ of all things, why do you even need to post about it here? It must be true then, right?

Seriously though, you sound like the typical Xbot who hadn't said a nice word about microsoft EVER until they released a games console. We've had a million of guys just like you pass through here trying to stir romantic shit up about nextbox and how ooh-aah-superduper it's going to be. A few even seriously entertained the idea of not only dual GPUs but also a 10GHz P4 CPU. Obviously that was a while ago, but you see the lengths some fans go to when it comes to believing all kinds of crazy shit about the next generation just because they're a fan of the current hardware.

It's not going to have dual GPUs. Trust me, it just isn't, and the biggest reason is it simply won't need it. It'll be totally kickass anyway, don't worry.

Ouch!!
Hold your horses.. you carry to much aggression...

The reason why I posted here was BECAUSE I didn´t exactly believed him, so I was just wondering if someone heard anything like this, apparently not.

Ohh .. and yeah.. I love how some "Long time posters" seem to know that they "know" someone just by one post. Seriously, I was just asking a question here, about the possibilites of a dual-VPU core... not romanticing anything about a supermarvelous Xbox2 with peanut-butter and jelly..

I was merely asking a question and the this dude comes out of nowhere and talks as if he knows me and my "secret perverted dreams of Xbox and Bill Gates, my first lover"... sheeez....

 

[wco81]

Are there a lot of people in the "bizniz" in Sweden?

 

[jvd]

Ms can very easily do this . Since the r300 (mabye even the r200 ) ati's chips have been multi gpu able. I believe the r300 is 64 chips together max and they are used in some simulation machines .


The benefits of going dual gpu . Well

INstead of making say a 24 pipe line chip they could put in 2 12 pipe line chips or mabye even 2 16 pipeline chips in . This would allow them to spend more of the budget on shader performance and other advanced feature performance .

Later in the xbox 2's life on a more advanced platform , mabye 2007ish they can then put the two gpus into one on say 45nm processes .


I honestly can't believe that the gpu is going to be the most expensive part of this system. Remember this time around everytime they can drop a process and make a smaller cooler chip they can reap the cost benfits . This lets them quickly jump from fab to fab which has the best tech for them at the time and the highest possible yields while only paying ati a small liscense fee. I also believe that unlike the deal with nvidia there was no big money for developement that changed hands. Which i believe was something over a 150 million .

Saving that type of money , they can now invest it into the consoles price reduction.

Anyway who knows what will happen.

I've said it before that they can do this . I dunno the power of the r500 to know if they have to do it .

 

[Megadrive1988]

this thread is rapidly deteriorating and will probably be locked next time I refresh it. sigh.

 

[Tysan]

No chance, MS needs a good cost-performance plataform this time around to be able to push a good market price to make as much sales as posible before Ps3 (& Rev) are released.

Even more they wont be willing to sell at a loss like Xbox, they need to start making profits.

Taking that in mind 2xGPU is not a smart move.

 

[Sonic]

This rumor might be tied in with the speculation surrounding MS's next console derived arcade hardware. There is speculation in part that MS would be able to add another graphics chip to double the graphical performance of Xenon. This sort of thing would interest companies like Namco and SEGA. I know speculation about Xenon derived arcade hardware is just on what some of SEGA's teams would want. And in no way does the speculation get fed from any type of info MS has let out.

I guess there are a few of us with connections in the industry. So consider this rumor nothing more than speculation gone into misinformation.