Portable PS5? *spawn*

[Shifty Geezer]

No. I am saying that Nintendo's output is pretty lack luster this generation and its on the strength of reselling already released games from their biggest failure that helped them this generation.

I don't think that negates the appeal of the software on NSW. Whether those games were created purposefully for Switch, or ported from a platform no-one owned, they were still good games and new to most NSW owners.It's not like they were mediocre games that people bought for nostalgia reasons.

Ergo, the software is driving interest in NSW. Look at the sales figures for those top titles - they are reaching a huge proportion of the total install base. 6 million units got you into the top-ten PS2 games sold. NSW is looking at 3x that to reach the top ten, and 62 million Mario Karts! That's half the audience on one game!! GTA was massive on PS2 and yet that sold 17 million. Even GTA V's massive 30 million out of 80 million consoles on PS3 is nothing close to Nintendo's performance on NSW.

 

[Globalisateur]

If I were sony, and wanted to junp into the switch/steamdeck product category, I'd base it on the PS5 Architecture, and strip it down as much as possible while still maintaining native compatibility with PS4 titles. Not PS4 pro, but vanilla PS4. Instant huge digial library available from day one. But new titles could use the modern arch niceties (SSD streaming and RT to name the most obvious ones) for modern releases. Many devs will be making stripped down ports of PS5 titles for the switch 2 anyways.

If they are doing this my guess (similar to yours actually) is they are going to base it on PS5 Pro architecture. No need to use the ageing RDNA2 tech in a 2025+ product. So with that they could port PS5 games on it with similar visuals using newer RT and AI upscaling tech.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

If they are doing this my guess (similar to yours actually) is they are going to base it on PS5 Pro architecture. No need to use the ageing RDNA2 tech in a 2025+ product. So with that they could port PS5 games on it with similar visuals using newer RT and AI upscaling tech.

With enough ambition a mobile PS5(+), docked PS5 Pro+ is plausible circa 2027.

Focus on power efficiency, even if it's more $$$ per console would be a must. 128bit bus with 28gbps ram would hit the raw bandwidth of the PS5, by then GDDR7 should be able to run that at low voltage, put it on package for more power savings and you've got the bandwidth covered (just double the bus chiplets for docked!).

8 Zen 6c cores should be able to hit the required CPU usage.

The biggest problem would come in with the 36CUs @2.2ghz.

Ideally there'd be a lot of work on the SDK to try and get games compiled with a new version to run on cross compatibility on an altered hardware profile. Zen 6 will have vastly more IPC than Zen 2, get the CPU to run clocks as low as possible instead of a more fixed profile. Similar a much wider, slower RDNA6 GPU would be better for power efficiency than 2.2ghz, but compatibility would need to be guaranteed. Getting on some sort of forward looking SDK compilation, much like the PS5 SDK allows for recompilation from PS4 to PS5 to take advantage of the SSD/etc would be very helpful.

At the very least the nigh requirement for on package RAM might cut the need for RDNA's giant MALL cache entirely. Going by Apple M series tests they can hit VRAM in 100ns (on M1 no less), while RDNA3 MALL takes 150ns, let alone the 250 for VRAM there.

 

[Globalisateur]

With enough ambition a mobile PS5(+), docked PS5 Pro+ is plausible circa 2027.

Focus on power efficiency, even if it's more $$$ per console would be a must. 128bit bus with 28gbps ram would hit the raw bandwidth of the PS5, by then GDDR7 should be able to run that at low voltage, put it on package for more power savings and you've got the bandwidth covered (just double the bus chiplets for docked!).

8 Zen 6c cores should be able to hit the required CPU usage.

The biggest problem would come in with the 36CUs @2.2ghz.

Ideally there'd be a lot of work on the SDK to try and get games compiled with a new version to run on cross compatibility on an altered hardware profile. Zen 6 will have vastly more IPC than Zen 2, get the CPU to run clocks as low as possible instead of a more fixed profile. Similar a much wider, slower RDNA6 GPU would be better for power efficiency than 2.2ghz, but compatibility would need to be guaranteed. Getting on some sort of forward looking SDK compilation, much like the PS5 SDK allows for recompilation from PS4 to PS5 to take advantage of the SSD/etc would be very helpful.

At the very least the nigh requirement for on package RAM might cut the need for RDNA's giant MALL cache entirely. Going by Apple M series tests they can hit VRAM in 100ns (on M1 no less), while RDNA3 MALL takes 150ns, let alone the 250 for VRAM there.

But the rumour is talking about PS4 BC, not PS5. I think it should be more realistic to aim for hardware PS4 BC combined with modern RDNA4 + PSSR features to target PS5 games quality, at least in big SP games and services games (COD, Fortnite, FIFA, etc). It could be a hardware with target performance very similar to Switch 2 according to others rumours which targets base PS4 performance without RT / DLSS.

BTW I think this PS Vita 2 (let's just call a duck a duck) rumour is bullshit. I don't see Sony trying to do a new handheld after how they treated poor PS Vita. They already have trouble developing one in-house game per year.

 

[eastmen]

I don't think that negates the appeal of the software on NSW. Whether those games were created purposefully for Switch, or ported from a platform no-one owned, they were still good games and new to most NSW owners.It's not like they were mediocre games that people bought for nostalgia reasons.

Ergo, the software is driving interest in NSW. Look at the sales figures for those top titles - they are reaching a huge proportion of the total install base. 6 million units got you into the top-ten PS2 games sold. NSW is looking at 3x that to reach the top ten, and 62 million Mario Karts! That's half the audience on one game!! GTA was massive on PS2 and yet that sold 17 million. Even GTA V's massive 30 million out of 80 million consoles on PS3 is nothing close to Nintendo's performance on NSW.

The issue is there isn't a failure of a product to take games from for a switch 2. Gamers already bought them. How many are going to go out to buy another mario kart esp if its still mario kart 8 but ultra deluxe or smash brothers ?

 

[Frenetic Pony]

But the rumor is talking about PS4 BC, not PS5. I think it should be more realistic to aim for hardware PS4 BC combined with modern RDNA4 + PSSR features to target PS5 games quality, at least in big SP games and services games (COD, Fortnite, FIFA, etc). It could be a hardware with target performance very similar to Switch 2 according to others rumurs which targets base PS4 performance without RT / DLSS.

BTW I think this PS Vita 2 (let's just call a duck a duck) rumor is bullshit. I don't see Sony trying to do a new handheld after how they treated poor PS Vita. They already have trouble developing one in-house game per year.

A portable PS4 is, who cares, less powerful than a Steamdeck, which is less powerful than a Switch 2, what's it going to be a phone that costs $250 or less to sell it at all. A new portable console that's "faster" but doesn't support PS5 games is- what are they going to do split their entire console generation 5-6 years in?

Why do that when a portable PS5 is 100% doable by the end of 2027. TSMC's roadmap is light on density increases but goes heavy on power efficiency, the tech is there. Forget "the next console" as a home thing, a portable PS5/Pro+ could easily be the PS6. Imagine showing off Spiderman 3 @60fps, The Last of Us Part 3 and Final Fantasy 7 pt 3 on a portable as a launch lineup. All coming to PS5 sure, but coming to PS6 as well which you can carry around with you.

 

[Charlietus]

A portable PS4 is, who cares, less powerful than a Steamdeck, which is less powerful than a Switch 2, what's it going to be a phone that costs $250 or less to sell it at all. A new portable console that's "faster" but doesn't support PS5 games is- what are they going to do split their entire console generation 5-6 years in?

Why do that when a portable PS5 is 100% doable by the end of 2027. TSMC's roadmap is light on density increases but goes heavy on power efficiency, the tech is there. Forget "the next console" as a home thing, a portable PS5/Pro+ could easily be the PS6. Imagine showing off Spiderman 3 @60fps, The Last of Us Part 3 and Final Fantasy 7 pt 3 on a portable as a launch lineup. All coming to PS5 sure, but coming to PS6 as well which you can carry around with you.

You aren't running PS5 games on a portable in 2027, no way. They would either have to port the game with different res and settings, or Sony would have to manually reduce the resolution for each game.

I agree that a portable in 2027 that splits the gen so close to the ps6 would make no sense, something that's comparable with ps5 that developers have to support from the moment it launches while Sony and devs patch older games make sense to me.

PS5 is going to get 99% of games for so many years after PS6 launches, let's not kid ourselves.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

With enough ambition a mobile PS5(+), docked PS5 Pro+ is plausible circa 2027.

Focus on power efficiency, even if it's more $$$ per console would be a must. 128bit bus with 28gbps ram would hit the raw bandwidth of the PS5, by then GDDR7 should be able to run that at low voltage, put it on package for more power savings and you've got the bandwidth covered (just double the bus chiplets for docked!).

8 Zen 6c cores should be able to hit the required CPU usage.

The biggest problem would come in with the 36CUs @2.2ghz.

Ideally there'd be a lot of work on the SDK to try and get games compiled with a new version to run on cross compatibility on an altered hardware profile. Zen 6 will have vastly more IPC than Zen 2, get the CPU to run clocks as low as possible instead of a more fixed profile. Similar a much wider, slower RDNA6 GPU would be better for power efficiency than 2.2ghz, but compatibility would need to be guaranteed. Getting on some sort of forward looking SDK compilation, much like the PS5 SDK allows for recompilation from PS4 to PS5 to take advantage of the SSD/etc would be very helpful.

At the very least the nigh requirement for on package RAM might cut the need for RDNA's giant MALL cache entirely. Going by Apple M series tests they can hit VRAM in 100ns (on M1 no less), while RDNA3 MALL takes 150ns, let alone the 250 for VRAM there.

I like the idea, but I don't see the need to rush.

A PSP3 using 18-20 PS5Pro CU's could be small, easy to cool, and manufactured on a more affordable 5nm process. There's also wiggle room for clockspeeds, depending on where the Switch 2 sits in terms of TF's. With the aforementioned specs and sufficient memory, the only thing limiting its lifespan is that of the Switch 2's.

It could also be the perfect companion device to PSVR2 - tethered only to the same extent as whatever Apple's headset is called.

More power's great, but the Switch has demonstrated that it's not strictly necessary. And dual-SIMD with a clockspeed in the 1.7GHz+ sort of range would have this device nipping at the heels of the base PS5 anyway. Of course, that depends on how alike dual-SIMD is to dual-FP16, but that remains to be seen in terms of a console's development environment.

I get the notion of not splitting playerbases, but I think this is solved through sensible marketing: it can play your entire digital PS4 library, and if you buy a PSP3 game, it will play in higher fidelity on the PS5/Pro. Simple.

Rinse and repeat a few years after the PS6 launches.

 

[Proelite]

Why do that when a portable PS5 is 100% doable by the end of 2027.

I highly doubt this. On paper, it might be able to, but in practice, the clocks will throttle heavily. A portable advertised as having 40 teraflops dual-issue would be around the ballpark of a PS5 in practice.

 

[eastmen]

I highly doubt this. On paper, it might be able to, but in practice, the clocks will throttle heavily. A portable advertised as having 40 teraflops dual-issue would be around the ballpark of a PS5 in practice.

welp the way Sony builds consoles now the portable can be the size of a laptop


The ROG ALLY X specs were laeked apparently

Its a zen 4 8 core _ 12 RDNA 2 compute units. 80WH battery and 24gigs of LPDDR5 7500 Memory.




Getting close to series s performance.

 

[Proelite]

welp the way Sony builds consoles now the portable can be the size of a laptop


The ROG ALLY X specs were laeked apparently

Its a zen 4 8 core _ 12 RDNA 2 compute units. 80WH battery and 24gigs of LPDDR5 7500 Memory.

View attachment 11372


Getting close to series s performance.

It's the same SOC as the Rog Ally which I have. The device at max performs at slightly over half of my series s due to thermal throttling and bandwidth limitations.

 

[eastmen]

It's the same SOC as the Rog Ally which I have. The device at max performs at slightly over half of my series s due to thermal throttling and bandwidth limitations.

faster ram , larger battery , better cooling.

 

[RDGoodla]

So now ps5 games ? Just all ps4 games ? I don't think that will work because switch 2 is likely going to be more powerful than a steam deck and that can play modern games. The time for a ps4 portable would have been 2020/21

Would it need a devkit? If you build and run a PS4 executable, it'd use the PS4 devkit.

Generally PS4 Portable is a handheld which can be based on ZEN2/RDNA2 but backward compatible with PS4. And it should have 1.8 TFlops and 176GB/s RAM in "portable mode". GPU performance is not far from Switch 2 since we heard Switch 2 has very low frequency in portable mode. It is interesting that PS4 Portable may have better CPU performance from ZEN 2 and faster RAM.

So PS Portable can port Switch 2 games easily. And it is backward compatible with PS4.

For instance if someone ports Control 2 to Switch 2, then the game is easily ported to PS Portable. Of course this means PS Portable at most has the same number of new games of switch 2. But if we expect porting to Switch 2 is much more common then PS Portable still has significant amount of new games.

And it is quite strange we don't hear any news of dev kits since it is needed to port PS5 exclusive games to PS Portable.

 

[eastmen]

Generally PS4 Portable is a handheld which can be based on ZEN2/RDNA2 but backward compatible with PS4. And it should have 1.8 TFlops and 176GB/s RAM in "portable mode". GPU performance is not far from Switch 2 since we heard Switch 2 has very low frequency in portable mode. It is interesting that PS4 Portable may have better CPU performance from ZEN 2 and faster RAM.

So PS Portable can port Switch 2 games easily. And it is backward compatible with PS4.

For instance if someone ports Control 2 to Switch 2, then the game is easily ported to PS Portable. Of course this means PS Portable at most has the same number of new games of switch 2. But if we expect porting to Switch 2 is much more common then PS Portable still has significant amount of new games.

And it is quite strange we don't hear any news of dev kits since it is needed to port PS5 exclusive games to PS Portable.

That is a large leap in logic because Nvidia's ray tracing performance is much better than AMD's rdna 2. Also if a 1.8TFLOp Zen2/ RDNA 2 machine is good enough then why isn't the 4tflop series s based on the same hardware lol.


Lets take your example of Control

One Switch 2 it will likely have access to DLSS with frame generation and the switch 2. The switch 2 will likely be able to do raytracing much faster than the rdna2 in the ps portable.



But lets even skip over the switch 2. 1.8Tflops is just a steam deck. The RDNA2 in that is capable of 1.6tflops. The steam deck is already 2 years old. The steam deck can already play Control 2.

What will likely happen is this Zen2 RDNA2 machine will come out with its 1.8tflops like you said and then Steam deck 2 with Zen5/RDNA 4 will drop or a new windows handheld.

Now here is where it gets interesting. That PS portable wont be able to play ps5 games but the new Steam deck /windows handheld can . So why would a sony fan buy a machine that can't play new Playstation games and plays third party games worse ?

 

[RDGoodla]

That is a large leap in logic because Nvidia's ray tracing performance is much better than AMD's rdna 2. Also if a 1.8TFLOp Zen2/ RDNA 2 machine is good enough then why isn't the 4tflop series s based on the same hardware lol.


Lets take your example of Control

One Switch 2 it will likely have access to DLSS with frame generation and the switch 2. The switch 2 will likely be able to do raytracing much faster than the rdna2 in the ps portable.



But lets even skip over the switch 2. 1.8Tflops is just a steam deck. The RDNA2 in that is capable of 1.6tflops. The steam deck is already 2 years old. The steam deck can already play Control 2.

What will likely happen is this Zen2 RDNA2 machine will come out with its 1.8tflops like you said and then Steam deck 2 with Zen5/RDNA 4 will drop or a new windows handheld.

Now here is where it gets interesting. That PS portable wont be able to play ps5 games but the new Steam deck /windows handheld can . So why would a sony fan buy a machine that can't play new Playstation games and plays third party games worse ?

1. I think we're talking a handheld console in next 1 year. PS4 Portable is completely doable, while a Series S portable is not possible in 2~3 years due to power consumption and RAM bandwidth.

2. Yes RDNA2 is not necessarily the best choice. For instance, Sony may design a minor version of PS5 Pro APU including Zen 2 and 18 CUs of RDNA4 and PSSR hardware.




PS Portable backward compatible with PS4 has two possible specs:


First one is targeting specs of Switch 2, and releasing in one year as soon as possible. Porting new 3rd party games from Switch 2.

Second is targeting XB series s and releasing in holiday 2026. Porting every game from series s. PS Portable may have more new games but it will face more competition and Switch 2 already sells much by then.

 

[RDGoodla]

LPDDR 5X already has 10.7Gbps. This is equivalent to 171GB/s using 128 bits.

Samsung Develops Industry's Fastest 10.7Gbps LPDDR5X DRAM

Samsung Electronics, a world leader in advanced memory technology, today announced that it has developed the industry's first LPDDR5X DRAM supporting the industry's highest performance of up to 10.7 gigabits-per-second (Gbps). Leveraging 12 nanometer (nm)-class process technology, Samsung has...

www.techpowerup.com

Mass production starts in the second half of the year.

Everything needed for PS4 Portable is ready, including CPU, GPU and RAM. So it is interesting when PS Portable is revealed. But one thing is certain that is Sony will release PS Portable, if XB really has a handheld console.

 

[eastmen]

1. I think we're talking a handheld console in next 1 year. PS4 Portable is completely doable, while a Series S portable is not possible in 2~3 years due to power consumption and RAM bandwidth.

2. Yes RDNA2 is not necessarily the best choice. For instance, Sony may design a minor version of PS5 Pro APU including Zen 2 and 18 CUs of RDNA4 and PSSR hardware.




PS Portable backward compatible with PS4 has two possible specs:


First one is targeting specs of Switch 2, and releasing in one year as soon as possible. Porting new 3rd party games from Switch 2.

Second is targeting XB series s and releasing in holiday 2026. Porting every game from series s. PS Portable may have more new games but it will face more competition and Switch 2 already sells much by then.

1) PS4 portables have been possible for years now. If you want to play just ps4 titles at ps4 settings then the Steam deck is more than capable of that.

2) Sure sony could do that but it wont play PS5 games and so what is really the point? A 18CU RDNA4 will be more powerful than 1.8Tflops. Steam deck is only 8CUs at 1.6ghz . 18 CUs is in a whole other league at that point they are better off just introducing a ps5 s spec.


3) We don't know what Switch 2 actually is. It could be more powerful than what you are talking about. Nvidia has much better technology compared to AMD and everything is point to rdna4 just being a bug fixed rdna 3. Its not really until RDNA 5 that they are making an architecture change and that is 2025 at the earliest.

4) series S would be the most logical step. But again ps5 games aren't designed for that so they would either have to port Series s games over or put out patches with lower resolutions for the ps5 versions of the games.


I still believe that MS is actually in a better place to launch a xbox s portable than sony. People keep pushing this Xbox oem thing. I think that is the one place where it would work. A series S portable. ASUS / DELL and others already have windows portables. They can just buy the APU from MS and put it in their current portables and call it a day.

 

[Cyan]

All business has an element of luck. Nintendo are lucky that mobile hasn't wooed away their younger audience.

there are several reasons why Nintendo does great with the younger audience aside from making really great games:

- parents buying their kids the Switch 'cos they were console gamers, out of nostalgia.
- parents wanting their kids to leave them alone and not wanting them to get addicted to phones (that's why tablets are also popular with kids)
- even if parents don't want to buy their kids a console it's easy for kids to win a Switch in a contest or kids product promotion (one of my siblings got a Switch in a product promotion despite his parents not wanting a console for their child)

 

[RDGoodla]

1) PS4 portables have been possible for years now. If you want to play just ps4 titles at ps4 settings then the Steam deck is more than capable of that.

Sony's PS4 Portable is running PS4 games directly so this console needs 176GB/s RAM or so, and it is only available in the 2nd half of this year.

Current situation is every platform has a handheld console, so PS has to release a new PSP for itself, even if Xbox is in a better place in handheld.

 

[eastmen]

Sony's PS4 Portable is running PS4 games directly so this console needs 176GB/s RAM or so, and it is only available in the 2nd half of this year.

Current situation is every platform has a handheld console, so PS has to release a new PSP for itself, even if Xbox is in a better place in handheld.

If you go with a 1-1 hardware configuration perhaps. But there is other hardware running PS4 games at higher quality with less bandwidth like the steam deck and other amd handhelds.